Liverpool

[nosey-p]

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[Waz1892]

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+1.

16years old I was when we last done it...I"ll be at 37 in 2011.  Embarrasing.

[nosey-p]

Is this Benitez last game?

If they win he keeps it, if they lose then he's out, if they draw then he may survive.

Do the players have to take the blame or is it down to the manager?

How can you have a top team so dependent on two players? (Yes I know they beat manure last year without them)

For me he's had the money but in my opinion has not strengthened the team. We had a chance last year but did not take it. HE HAS TO GO

 

[hi_am_chris]

signed too many average players for over inflated prices, not signed players good enough to win the prem examples kuyt babel, benayoun (although still a good signing), keane, riera. also been unlucky with agger always being injured. Dont understand why hes persisting with lucas when hes doesnt appear good enough. Still need to replace Alonso too and def need more pace down the wings

[Mikeyboy9361]

lol, loving this !!

[nosey-p]

lol, loving this !!

Go and start your own thread

[rubertoe]

Benitez out!!!

[Waz1892]

Win or lose he"ll stay. 5 year contract signed only 6months ago...we couldn"t afford to get rid of him!!

They would never dare do it either, as he (rafa) is still liked amongst most fans currently, although with the first voices of discontent being aired when Yossi went off the other night was the start.

For me, that is the biggest issues Rafa has.  Options in the squad. We have spent alot of money, despite the clubs huge debt.  Other than Barry I"m not aware he has ever been told no?!  He just has brought wrong, the club has brought wrong. 

Trouble is we have been doing it for years....I"ve lost count how many "up and coming " player we have signed in recent times.....Houllier it was French..(La Tallec, Pongelle, Traoure)..Rafa just repeating it again (Ngog, Lucus, Aurelio,)

Squad is weak...looking on the bench its scary.....which is where we fall down.   Rafa has no capicity to actually change things...at least 90% of subs we make is just like for like...nothing actually changes, and its normal not an improvement with who ever comes on.   So we are losing 1-0 or 1-1...and Riera will come off for Babel...or Ngog will come on for Kuyt..same for same....he never, or rarely "gambles," or tactically changes things to try to rectify the current scoreline.

Andy Gray once said a while back (and I hate the tw&t) Manager by numbers...65mins sub...80mins sub.  Its scary.

It is the players or the manager....hard to say...is it Babels fault for his attitude and not seeming to try, or rafa for not motivating?

I dont think mancs squad or chelsea squad is majorly better, they just have more quality for options.  We have Babel, Ngog and Vorinin.  Is Carrick or Ballack really that much better than say Lucas...they are better of course, but not by a million miles. 

We played over half the games without Stevie and Torres last year and finshed 2nd...and would have won it if it wasn"t for January, so while they are massive for us, it can be done.

We are very short on confidence...carra looks lost all of a sudden, I fear for Stevie and Groin.. too many times in recent months it goes...he not going to risk it too much with WC year in 2010, more so if we aren"t in the race for the title.

CL will be all down to the Italiand at anfield we us needing to win 2-0 +.  possible but other big night required.

My brother hates us and is a Chelsea fan....he has always said..

Rafa is living on 2 fluke results, and has done for 5 years.  Olympicakos (cant be assed to chekc spelling) 1-0 down got 3 very late on (both players that scored, never did much before or after, but came on because we had nothing else - Mellor and pongelle)

As a direct result - making the final when a mircale happened...if we went in 2-0 we"d have lost...AC just switched off.

I dont" agree with most of that of course....but it getting harder to argue.

rant over...not structured but i feel a little better for it!  

could go on for ages....

[nosey-p]

 

[Waz1892]

+1.....I stand by the above, as our bench was awful before the game, but what a performance

[AMRN]

Interesting that on George Bedi"s facebook, he claimed the lack of red card for Carragher was the crucial point where the game would have turned, and there were pundits who said similiar things after the match. In my opinion this is desperation - Liverpool were the better team from the kick off right through to the end. They clearly had more appetite for the game, were first to every ball, were stronger and quicker in every department, and were fully deserving of their win.

I just get so frustrated that for the past 20 years, Liverpool rarely play well unless their backs are against the wall, as they so definitely are right now. In the 80s, Liverpool could be 15 points clear at the top, and would still play football with their hearts on their sleeves, and would tear up any and all opposition. They would put on a display whether they were playing Real Madrid, Man Utd, or some unheard of team from outer-Uzbekistan.  Now it takes talk of management sackings, the worst run for 50+ years, etc, before they turn out and put on a display worthy of their badge and their history. 

So what has changed?

The passion from the Scouse support has not changed, aside from the dampener that seating the Kop brought about. I use to stand on the Kop and get lost in the atmosphere - it never feels like that any more.

The introduction of so many foreigners cannot really be blamed - there were periods during the 80s heyday when Liverpool did not have a single English player in the "best 11" - admittedly they were mostly "local" foreigners (home countries, or Norway, Denmark, etc)... but they were still foreigners.   Ian Rush was Welsh, Kenny was Scottish, Jan Molby was Danish..... but all were considered honorary scousers. Whilst Torres and the rest of the Spaniards, Brazilians,etc in today"s team are revered by the fans, I don"t feel that honorary adoption to Scousehood.

Money? Yes that"s changed, but not sure that more money makes a team have less desire to win. Man Utd have loads of money, but they still have burning desire.

Foreign Manager? In the 80s, we were successful under Paisley.... but prior to that we were massively successful under Shanks, and he was foreign (sort of), as was Dalglish in the post-Paisley years.

For me, the rot started when Dalglish resigned as manager and Souness arrived. I don"t know why, but that is the period during which it all started to degenerate (very quickly), and a period from which we have never ever recovered. OK we have some Euro success along the way, but we don"t have the domination that we had during the 80s, but more importantly (Stevie G aside) we don"t seem to have the heart and desire we had during the 80s. 

Where did it really go wrong? Is it recoverable? Can Liverpool ever recover the dominance they once had? Can any team?

[Logie66]

Got to comment in this one, life long fan and a supporter of Benitez.

The media tends to really over inflate anything that happens with Liverpool, haven"t seen much about Tottenham losing to Stoke, Arsenal and City surrendering a two-nil lead.  The title is harder to win nowadays and we missed probably the greatest chance we had last year, we have been slow out of the blocks this year, but haven"t played that bad, with the number of drawn games last year we are still capable of winning the league and we are not a two man team, regardless of how much the media says we are.

Agger coming back from Injury will make a difference to our play and I"m looking forward to see the influence that Aquilani will have on the team.  Benayoun is starting to become an important player for us.

Lets see what the situation is after the next 10 games !

Oh and one thing, always say it, the slide started under Dalglish with his batch of poor signings, anyone remember Speedie and Jimmy Carter !!

[AMRN]

Oh and one thing, always say it, the slide started under Dalglish with his batch of poor signings, anyone remember Speedie and Jimmy Carter !!

I tend to agree - I seem to remember the average age of the "best 11" at the time that Dalglish resigned was 30+... and clearly that"s a poor situation to be in.  Kenny was a great player, one of the best in the history of world football in my opinion, but has never really cut it as a manager. At Liverpool he took over a world beating side, and let it get old. His periods at Blackburn and Newcastle were nothing to write home about either. Perhaps he is in his ideal role now working with the LFC Academy?

When Souness took over, I guess in some respect he tried to do the right thing by recruiting and rebuilding, and he made some good signings... Macca, Saunders, Wright, to name three.... but he also added to the list of disasters that included Carter and Speedie - remember Glenn Hysen and Torben Picnic???  I also remember the likes of Rush, Whelan and Nicol becoming deflated and jaded under Souness - OK they were toward the end of their careers, but they lost a lot of what made them special in pevious years - and that"s not just about age and fitness.

Perhaps the decline started during Dalglish"s tenure, and got worse to the point of no return during Souness"s tenure. If that is so, then I wonder if a return to the glory of the Shankly and Paisley eras is ever really possible. Massive cash injections from the Middle East would be nice, but you can"t buy heart and resolve.

[Logie66]

Agree Steve, Souness ruined the core and crippled Liverpool for many years, he did also have to work with the stupid Uefa rule which restricted the number of foreign players, trouble was he did it and then they then got rid of the rule.

Still an awful manager, but a great player.

[kinboshi]

Why do people continue to say that Kuyt is a poor/average player?  They either know nothing about football or don"t actually watch Liverpool play.

As for the Carragher foul/card.  Owen fouled him first, so it was a free-kick to Liverpool.  But if the ref gives it to manu, then it has to be a red card.  Vidic deserved two red cards as well, but got two yellows.  Ref was consistent.

Torres is amazing.  Only 80% fit and had to have pain-killing injections before the game and wasn"t definitely in the line-up.  Still ripped Rio a new arse