Season 4 Announcement

[Paulie_D]

In the end, the answer is simple, if you want to play in the team comp, join a forum, even the APAT forum would do, post more, become well known and get picked.

Interesting comment here Paulie.

Why would an individual neccessarily need to become "well known" to represent a forum that they may be a member of if say, their results were good enough to merit a spot if that was the chosen criteria of that particular forum?

Also, was this/would this be a factor in choosing which forums would gain entry to the team competition, "you"re only a small forum and not well known, so you have a lesser chance of obtaining a spot in the team comp?"

What was the method used for choosing which 20 teams would participate in last years forum team comp?

Geo

You have a point, I was just trying to make the point that the Team comp is different from the other Nationals. It"s entirely there to drum up interest and spread the word about APAT. I believe that Des made that comment. (With apologies if I"m mis-remembering).

How each forum chooses their team is down to them and by their nature they"ll tend to be cliquey and the internal politics bore me too.

As for how the individual forums are selected, the criteria are based on the reasons for the comp. By that reasoning, the tendency is to "pre-select" (if you will) the larger forums.

Therefore THM, Blonde, APAT, Punterslounge etc., being nationally based, get "preference".

As I said, it"s a different comp from all the others...more of a "marketing" thing than anything else.

[fraac]

Well if it"s purely for marketing you all shouldn"t have so much fun.

[Jon MW]

Having said that, there were still teams with much smaller "bases" represented.

They may be more likely to get switched round year on year - but a smaller forum/team is not necessarily going to miss out on the team events.

Like Paulie said if anyone disagrees with how any particular forum picks a team then that"s a matter to bring up their forum rather than here anyway.


And it"s not like the team championship is instead of an open championship - if it didn"t take place, it"d just save the sponsor a bit of money. So there"s no actual loss to anybody who doesn"t take part in it, there just isn"t any gain.

If anybody does feel really strongly about it though - I think the best protest they could make would be to boycott it

[Geo]

In the end, the answer is simple, if you want to play in the team comp, join a forum, even the APAT forum would do, post more, become well known and get picked.

Interesting comment here Paulie.

Why would an individual neccessarily need to become "well known" to represent a forum that they may be a member of if say, their results were good enough to merit a spot if that was the chosen criteria of that particular forum?

Also, was this/would this be a factor in choosing which forums would gain entry to the team competition, "you"re only a small forum and not well known, so you have a lesser chance of obtaining a spot in the team comp?"

What was the method used for choosing which 20 teams would participate in last years forum team comp?

Geo

You have a point, I was just trying to make the point that the Team comp is different from the other Nationals. It"s entirely there to drum up interest and spread the word about APAT. I believe that Des made that comment. (With apologies if I"m mis-remembering).

How each forum chooses their team is down to them and by their nature they"ll tend to be cliquey and the internal politics bore me too.

As for how the individual forums are selected, the criteria are based on the reasons for the comp. By that reasoning, the tendency is to "pre-select" (if you will) the larger forums.

Therefore THM, Blonde, APAT, Punterslounge etc., being nationally based, get "preference".
As I said, it"s a different comp from all the others...more of a "marketing" thing than anything else.

This is precisely why the question was asked. On one hand we say it is to encourage others but on the other we say that preference is given to these forums due to their numbers, however these are predominantly APATERS anyway.

Personally I believe the only "givens" should be an APAT team (being the organisers) and the previous winners. After that a draw between all forums expressing an interest that can prove they can provide a team.

Geo

[Paulie_D]

Personally I believe the only "givens" should be an APAT team (being the organisers) and the previous winners. After that a draw between all forums expressing an interest that can prove they can provide a team.

I get this, and there was debate on it previously. I believe that only guaranteed team is, in fact, APAT but Des & Crew select the others.

Their criteria were mentioned based on the reasons for the comp in the first place. Other forums get "preference" in the selection process, not a guarantee. Membership is clearly a big tick in the box but a smaller, perhaps more well know forum will tick another box.

Skill level is not necessarily a factor. It certainly isn"t in my case.

I"m happy for Des, Richard et al to pick. A draw of teams wouldn"t necessarily (he hastily qualifies) achieve the reasons for holding the comp.

For one comp out of the many, I"m happy to let this one be different.

[Chipaccrual]

In the end, the answer is simple, if you want to play in the team comp, join a forum, even the APAT forum would do, post more, become well known and get picked.

Interesting comment here Paulie.

Why would an individual neccessarily need to become "well known" to represent a forum that they may be a member of if say, their results were good enough to merit a spot if that was the chosen criteria of that particular forum?

Also, was this/would this be a factor in choosing which forums would gain entry to the team competition, "you"re only a small forum and not well known, so you have a lesser chance of obtaining a spot in the team comp?"

What was the method used for choosing which 20 teams would participate in last years forum team comp?

Geo

You have a point, I was just trying to make the point that the Team comp is different from the other Nationals. It"s entirely there to drum up interest and spread the word about APAT. I believe that Des made that comment. (With apologies if I"m mis-remembering).

How each forum chooses their team is down to them and by their nature they"ll tend to be cliquey and the internal politics bore me too.

As for how the individual forums are selected, the criteria are based on the reasons for the comp. By that reasoning, the tendency is to "pre-select" (if you will) the larger forums.

Therefore THM, Blonde, APAT, Punterslounge etc., being nationally based, get "preference".
As I said, it"s a different comp from all the others...more of a "marketing" thing than anything else.

This is precisely why the question was asked. On one hand we say it is to encourage others but on the other we say that preference is given to these forums due to their numbers, however these are predominantly APATERS anyway.

Personally I believe the only "givens" should be an APAT team (being the organisers) and the previous winners. After that a draw between all forums expressing an interest that can prove they can provide a team.

Geo

Aren"t those two the same team at the moment ?    

Well, one more space for eveyone else.  

I am gathering all this feedback, as it is an interesting discussion.  We have a few ideas to try and give the "qualifying criteria" a bit more structure this year.  Not always easy to do, and I guarantee you now that we won"t be able to please everyone, but we will try our best.

The UK team event is one of the most over subscribed events of the year.  With a number of forums/clubs missing out completely, and a large majority of those competing forums requesting to enter multiple teams.  I"m not sure even a venue such as DTD would be able to cope with the demand.

It"s a very tough event to win aswell.  These team events require a blend of poker skill and experience that is mixed together to create a team capable of beating the best the UK has to offer.

Who are the reigning champs ?  I can"t remember.  

[RioRodent]

Personally I tried to get onto a forum team for the last two years: the first year I was highest placed in their league but too low profile on the forum, the second year I was too high profile. Got sick of it after that. Likewise the first team for a lot of Edinburgh APATers would be Officepoker, who I guess weren"t high enough profile last time, which instantly excludes about half the Edinburgh online team. I"m very enthusiastic about APAT in general, love the ethos, but politics wearies me.

Having said that, there were still teams with much smaller "bases" represented.

They may be more likely to get switched round year on year - but a smaller forum/team is not necessarily going to miss out on the team events.

Like Paulie said if anyone disagrees with how any particular forum picks a team then that"s a matter to bring up their forum rather than here anyway.


And it"s not like the team championship is instead of an open championship - if it didn"t take place, it"d just save the sponsor a bit of money. So there"s no actual loss to anybody who doesn"t take part in it, there just isn"t any gain.

If anybody does feel really strongly about it though - I think the best protest they could make would be to boycott it

Top advice for someone who has been unable to get into a team!!  

[duke3016]

Chezger were lucky enough to get a team in last season, and as it"s a dictatorship team selection was easy  

[Jon MW]

I don"t think wholesale changes would be a good idea - after all you don"t get 10 teams at a time being relegated and promoted from the Premiership do you.

I haven"t looked at exactly what effect it would have but I would expect something like the top 5 teams get invited back plus the team that all 9 of the final table individuals represented would be a good idea

In theory that would mean a maximum of 15 players (including APAT) and the rest could be changed but obviously in practice there would be an overlap

Any more than that then you would lose too much continuity from year to year.


NB: Rio, glad you appreciated my boycotting advice  

[SirPercival]

I don"t think wholesale changes would be a good idea - after all you don"t get 10 teams at a time being relegated and promoted from the Premiership do you.

I haven"t looked at exactly what effect it would have but I would expect something like the top 5 teams get invited back plus the team that all 9 of the final table individuals represented would be a good idea

In theory that would mean a maximum of 15 players (including APAT) and the rest could be changed but obviously in practice there would be an overlap

Any more than that then you would lose too much continuity from year to year.


NB: Rio, glad you appreciated my boycotting advice  

I would prefer that it was top 10.  

[Paulie_D]

I haven"t looked at exactly what effect it would have but I would expect something like the top 5 teams get invited back plus the team that all 9 of the final table individuals represented would be a good idea

I"m not sure what you mean by this Jon, surely the 9 players on the FT would have come from a number of teams?

So, let"s for arguments sake, say 9 teams each get 1 player to the FT, when those players come back, what forum do they represent in the following year"s comp which is, after all, primarily a team game?



By all means let APAT and the previous winning forum (if different) get guaranteed places in the next comp but after that, let Des et al decide who they want in.

Do a clean sweep and let all new forums in or whatever, I think we all trust them to do what"s right for the majority and APAT as a whole.

I"m of the opinion (obviously) that this comp is different from all the other offerings from APAT, put on for different reasons, and normal criteria of fairness in selection do not, necessarily, have to be applied.

[SirPercival]

I humbly request to not have another forum team championship, as a lot of APATers are excluded from these.

A lot of APATers are "excluded" from other live events by not being able to get a seat, not wanting to play "Speciality Games", travel issues etc..

The Forum Team Challenge is a means of spreading the news of, and drumming up interest in,  APAT across the interwebz and in areas where it otherwise might not reach. And it"s only one comp. There are plenty of others.

There were 20 forums represented last time, not everyone who wanted to play from those forums (fora?) were chosed so they were excluded too.

I had, originally, excluded myself from my forums team (sorry, the forum to which I belong, not "my" forum) but was able to get in as a late sub. Not that I covered myself in glory going out second to a 2 outer on the turn.

In the end, the answer is simple, if you want to play in the team comp, join a forum, even the APAT forum would do, post more, become well known and get picked.

Interesting comment here Paulie.

Why would an individual neccessarily need to become "well known" to represent a forum that they may be a member of if say, their results were good enough to merit a spot if that was the chosen criteria of that particular forum?

Also, was this/would this be a factor in choosing which forums would gain entry to the team competition, "you"re only a small forum and not well known, so you have a lesser chance of obtaining a spot in the team comp?"

What was the method used for choosing which 20 teams would participate in last years forum team comp?

Geo

Agree with Geo, seems that this could be very cliquey in that the most frequent posters are picked with the better performing players being over looked.

Personally a live team event based on the online teams from all divisions with the best performing players representing their team would make more sense. Just my twopenneth anyways.

Well I don"t remember Kinfishy being in the APAT team in season 3 so that certainly hasn"t happened to date  

[KarmaDope]

I haven"t looked at exactly what effect it would have but I would expect something like the top 5 teams get invited back plus the team that all 9 of the final table individuals represented would be a good idea

I"m not sure what you mean by this Jon, surely the 9 players on the FT would have come from a number of teams?

So, let"s for arguments sake, say 9 teams each get 1 player to the FT, when those players come back, what forum do they represent in the following year"s comp which is, after all, primarily a team game?



By all means let APAT and the previous winning forum (if different) get guaranteed places in the next comp but after that, let Des et al decide who they want in.

Do a clean sweep and let all new forums in or whatever, I think we all trust them to do what"s right for the majority and APAT as a whole.

I"m of the opinion (obviously) that this comp is different from all the other offerings from APAT, put on for different reasons, and normal criteria of fairness in selection do not, necessarily, have to be applied.

I think what Jon is saying is that any team that had a player FT gets a place.

[Paulie_D]

I think what Jon is saying is that any team that had a player FT gets a place.

That"s what I thought originally but that could lead (potentially) to upwards of 11 teams returning. Uproar ensues!

He referred later to 15 players coming back...which is what confused me.

[KarmaDope]

I think what Jon is saying is that any team that had a player FT gets a place.

That"s what I thought originally but that could lead (potentially) to upwards of 11 teams returning. Uproar ensues!

He referred later to 15 players coming back...which is what confused me.

Even if there are 11 teams remaining, that"s 9 spots, assuming it"s a 20 man competition. To be fair, I"ve played in both events and I got the impression that generally, only 3-4 players per team score points as a maximum. If this is the case, why not have 40 teams of 5? From APAT's POV, it solves the problem of different forums wanting places and if there"s spare places, then I bet the bigger forums can have a second team? Every forum gets a shot then.