was this correct ?

[RioRodent]

depending where he is on the table he may not be accurately able to see how much you have. Therefore if you are not going to oblige by simply telling how much you have then the best alternative is for the dealer to count it down on your behalf - don"t really see what problem you can have with it.

I don"t have a problem with a dealer counting them if HE"S asked to, I just don"t want him reaching into my stack without this request.

In any case the sequence should always be:

V: How much to you have behind?
H: This much (gesturing to properly stacked chips)
V: I"m sorry, I can"t see that far (should have gone to Specsavers)
H: No problem, I"ve got xxxxxx

Followed by

V: Thanks very much...I fold.

Unaccustomed as I am to disagreeing... the highlighted statement is just incorrect. You have no obligation to say anything in answer to any other players questions.

However, I agree that the dealer shouldn"t provide the count unless specifically asked.

[Paulie_D]

OK, perhaps ALWAYS was a bit much...i was just trying to provide an example.



Do we agree that a player is entitled to a count of your stack?

I think the answer is "Yes" but I"m having trouble finding it anywhere in the rules.

If we accept that, then someone has to count it. I"m on the side of the requested player providing the count of his own chips rather than the dealer....but if he won"t answer then the dealer should do it (on request).

EDIT

Found this somewhere else..

My understanding is that traditionally, the player is merely entitled to a clear view of the chips and nothing more.

Robert"s states that chips must be in plain view, and while it doesn"t state that a player is entitled to a count, it doesn"t explicitly prohibit it, either. Many house policies are that they must be cleanly stacked. Some do have policy that if the player doesn"t count it then the dealer should, but this is by no means the norm.

[pokerpops]

The Central Oregon Poker Knights make it pretty clear..

http://centraloregonpokerknights.com/rules.htm

Specifically...
"Chip Count. A player involved in a hand is entitled to ask how many chips an opponent has. If a player does not wish to respond verbally to such a request, the dealer shall count the player's chips and respond to the question. [Source: WPA]"

I don"t see why this is an issue in any event? Does the dealer touching our stack upset the positive force field we"ve created by stacking the chips along a ley line?

[Swinebag]

this all seems pretty academic to me, but I"ll reply (in Brian style)

The player has a RIGHT to know the oppos chip stack. The oppo can keep his mouth shut, if he chooses to, but MUST then leave his chips FULLY visible for the player to count

If player or dealer are not able to ascertain the stack size down to the last chip, then the dealer can SURELY do whatever he needs to, to give this information to the player requesting it. If this means touching your chips, then so be it.


coming from an online background, where stack sizes are clearly in view, I dont have a problem in live games, counting my chips out (it doesn"t normally take me long..LOL) when requested.

@ Brian. Do you feel you are giving up info or tells by counting out? If so then I understand your line. If not then why not count out / tell the man and keep the game moving?

[Honeybadg]

... what do you do if:

a/ you cannot count
b/ the dealer cannot count

I think I would usually tell people how many chips I had due to the potential boredom of the dealer having to count them ...

I think it is reasonable to lie about the number of chips you have if they are clearly in view, or if you have forgotten, or is the Villain is clearly just trying to deliver a speech ...

L

[daveyb147]

Interesting replies. The fact that my chips are on show means that the player surely can count them without the help of the dealer ?
I was quite surprised when the dealer reached over to the chips as I have never seen this happen before.

chips on show is one thing, but a player has the right to know exactly how much you"re holding, right down to the last chip....  that said, the dealer should never do anything here unless specifically requested to do so.

On a similar note, the rule that bugs me is that the dealer is not allowed to count down the pot - we have to figure out a value by counting..... don"t have to put up with that online!

 agree with the bug,,,can only speed things up surely

[LongshanksED]

Now while this isnt gospal and is on a tangent to whats bring discussed

I currently read harrington on cash pt2 and in a section he briefly goes off into table talk, tells and mannerisms

he cited a point that when an opponent asks how much you have, to prevent giving anything away with your hand movements or voice you should just point at your chips and let the dealer count them for you!  

Good enough for fan, good enough for me

[Cyntaf]

Was he asking you personally Brian, or was it directed at the dealer, doesn"t matter really. If you choose not to reply, IMO the dealer took charge and made the count for your oppo"s answer. Otherwise the table could stagnate waiting for a reply, you looking at him/him looking at you.

The guy may have poor eyesight etc. I"ve never played at a table where the the dealer can"t touch chips without asking? If he can"t be trusted, well there"s no hope for any of us.

With regards to lying about your stack size, i can"t see this being ethical at all. Would be similar to announcing all in and getting called, only to bet the pot on the next street? WTF. Unlike cards, this is open information, for which the enquirer must be given a truthful answer, aside from joking 26k when he obviously has about 2.5/3k.

On the subject of honesty, ( Friday nigh in B/Head) a young lad brought up the ept Blag, and asked what about chipstacks? Say you had 10k, you could come back and say you had 30k??? After the tables were picked up etc.. I replied most "Poker Players" wouldn"t consider this. I didn"t bother to explain that in the ept most players would know from hand to hand just what yours and everyone elses chipstacks were, at least approx. He completely missed my point about most people are honest, and again asked, well how would they know? Duh! Or am i too naiave or honest for my own good?

[BOINGBLITZ]

Some very interesting answers here guys, so obviously it is a grey area for most of us.
The only reason I  originally asked the question was that I had never seen this happen before to a player who was not all-in. I don"t disagree with the dealer doing it, I was just wondering was it actually allowed at all !
As to your question about do I not want to give away information by answering the question, then No I do not. I rarely answer the question "How many chips do you have behind?". That is just a personal preference that works for me, like shades and a cap. That way, nobody knows who I am.......till I speak !!

[MintTrav]

If I ever ask about your chips, just give me a clear view or a rough total. For some reason, people start counting it out to the last chip, which has no effect on whether I bet into them.

Would be similar to announcing all in and getting called, only to bet the pot on the next street? WTF.

Eh? How does that work?