Live Feed vs. Live updates - Discussion

[nosey-p]

For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be.  On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k  

Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews  

If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both  
 

[SirPercival]

For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be.  On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k  

Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews  

If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both  
 

bye bye bankroll

hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite............

[Shortstack]

The live feed was awesome. Loads of my lads and family were glued to PC for from Saturday to Monday and due to the quality of the coverage it has made all of them want to play in the Online League and attend future live events in the future.
I got that many texts when we got interviewed it broke my sim card, honestly. Sim card fried.
I watched the coverage for the Omaha game and it was spot on, it kept freezing but thats standard UK internet.

All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.

Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.

[linziwan]

For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be.  On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k  

Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews  

If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both  
 

bye bye bankroll

hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite............

hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite  - with £4k?   Can tell Stuart"s a scott  

[Paulie_D]

All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.

Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.

If only it were that easy. Unfortunately, with the amount of poker on TV these days, people have very high expectations for a video production.

They want multiple player cameras, overhead cams, hole cams, on-screen graphics and commentary...oh, and across multiple tables too. At least I do...and that"s a quality product you can actually sell.

I don"t think anyone is going to argue that the live feed is a great addition, the debate that is..erm...raging, is that the live feed which has to be handled by Leigh, Tighty and Des..and anyone else who they can grab, is leaving no room for the quality forum updates that were the norm before.

In the past, you got the hand breakdowns on the forum and they covered multiple tables at the same time. With the current staffing (i.e. resources to use a buzzword) this is not possible.

If APAT could find 10/20 people willing to work long hours running around like headless chickens taking notes and running them back to the updating team they would STILL have a problem in that those people have to be able to report accurately, know the players names etc. etc. It"s a tough skillset to find.

Oh...and they"d have to do it for pretty much nothing to boot.

Anyone feel they want to give up playing a National and give the live updates a shot? I hang my head in shame and say "no" every time.

What"s the solution....I don"t know, seriously, I don"t know. Somewhere in the middle I guess.

Hold on folks, it"ll be interesting.  

[AmandaCamm]

Haven"t been an APAT"r  long enough to really comment, but would just like to say that having worked along side these guys at the weekend, its dammed hard work.  I was shattered and was updating for a lot less hours then they were. 

I personally love both updates via the forum and the camera, but to do both efficiently, more help is definitely needed.

Great job to those involved, but think you will have to use your charm to attract some more "cheap" helpers.....lol

[PHIL_TC]

Surely the answer is a simple one.

Des, Tighty and Leigh sign up for...



Problem solved  

[Shogun112]

My opinion...

I would like to see BOTH...  The video feed and the text based live updates..  The reason being that there are great reasons for both which have already been identified so I will not elaborate...  But...

- I would have someone doing the text based live updates and dedicated to doing that so that there is a consistency of that service.

- I would keep the video service, but, I think it would benefit massively if broadcast through a service like UStream or something very similar.  UStream can be free of charge, but pay a service fee or PAYG fee, then there are some huge advantages, and, could really be done by still using the same production team as already employed... For instance...

- No need for APAT to have own web server for video...
- A Recording service of up to 500 gig per month (more if u want it)... 
- On screen graphics...
- Lots of multi cam features.. 
- Chat live to the viewers...
- Viewer polls... 
- Send auto updates to Twitter, Facebook etc...
- UStream have mobile apps for iPhone, Android and Nokia to allow more viewers...
- Embed in your own site... 
- Audio only for them long distance events where there is no video team... 
- And lots more.....

Its a great service, if you have a webcam in you laptop, go try it now, its simple, broadcast yourself to the world.

In my opinion, without fully investigating properly, the people who have mentioned that the video service often freezes and pauses, loses whatever, are correct, I have sat here and watched it for myself, and, I think it is down to the casino"s internet service.  Most casinos have what is in effect a broadband type service.  APAT hits that casino with video broadcast equipment and 4 or 5 laptops and whatever else, and it really hammers their upload.  Video is running fine, someone uploads a load of photos, video suffers.  APAT dont have the ability to segment bandwidth of a casino and neither should they.  Rigth now, I dont see a fix to that, certainly UStream or a similar service will not fix that aside of producing the video on dedicated bandwidth.

Anyways, thats my twopenneth..

Carl.

[duke3016]

Anyways, thats my twopenneth..

Twopenneth  

[Chipaccrual]

Nice idea Phil.


Just to put a bit of this discussion in perspective, we"ve run the live feed at four events so far.

Swansea - It was totally new to us, also a new venue, just Tighty and I for most of it.

The Vic - Fully manned, and updates were good, imo.

Aberdeen - New venue, tough weekend, only myself and Tighty available.

DTD - The WCOAP, 2 events every day, 3 on Friday, Minimum of 20 tables occupied, maximum of 40ish.  Even without the live stream, we had out hands full to update everything to a standard we would like.


I"m not making excuses, and we are grateful to everyone that have helped at those events.

Personally, I think that we can do both formats justice, with a little more planning and getting a bit more support around the update team, then it is definitely achievable.

We racked up over 80 hours at DTD during the five daysm which, with hindsight, might not have been the best idea in the world, but I loved every minute of it (Even those points when I was ready smash someone over the head with my laptop).  

Dublin is updates only.  Seems a bit boring really.  

We"ll have the full APAT tv back on the road for Luton and Coventry.  Whether you think it"s a good idea or not, if you can"t make it there, I"m sure you"ll tune in at some point.  

[Paulie_D]

I would have someone doing the text based live updates and dedicated to doing that so that there is a consistency of that service.

The problem is, Carl, that one person cannot do a live update....you need, at the very least, two. One to be at the table and one to type.

Ideally, what you have is person typing with a team, perhaps 3 or 4 strong, running between tables trying to make notes on the action/cards/players names/chipstacks and then haring back to the update table with their info.

It"s a lot to gather and then transmit and, as has been mentioned, tough to find personnel with the necessary abilities.

[HaworthBantam]

We"ll have the full APAT tv back on the road for Luton and Coventry.  Whether you think it"s a good idea or not, if you can"t make it there, I"m sure you"ll tune in at some point.  

I shall endeavour to be at one or both these events to help out, Leigh. I might even be able to talk Amanda into it as well...  

[duncthehat]

The Live update feed was great for family etc watching and absorbing the atmosphere etc of the event.     They have in the past tried to follow what was going on through the updates but found them difficult to really follow/understand as non poker players and criticised the way they would often go off on a tangent. 

The combination of the live feed and in this case the dtd excellent website giving finishing positions seat draw etc gets a huge thumbs up from them.

The live feed gets a huge vote for me if i had to choose one over the other

[Shortstack]

All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.

Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.

If only it were that easy. Unfortunately, with the amount of poker on TV these days, people have very high expectations for a video production.

They want multiple player cameras, overhead cams, hole cams, on-screen graphics and commentary...oh, and across multiple tables too. At least I do...and that"s a quality product you can actually sell.

I don"t think anyone is going to argue that the live feed is a great addition, the debate that is..erm...raging, is that the live feed which has to be handled by Leigh, Tighty and Des..and anyone else who they can grab, is leaving no room for the quality forum updates that were the norm before.

In the past, you got the hand breakdowns on the forum and they covered multiple tables at the same time. With the current staffing (i.e. resources to use a buzzword) this is not possible.

If APAT could find 10/20 people willing to work long hours running around like headless chickens taking notes and running them back to the updating team they would STILL have a problem in that those people have to be able to report accurately, know the players names etc. etc. It"s a tough skillset to find.

Oh...and they"d have to do it for pretty much nothing to boot.

Anyone feel they want to give up playing a National and give the live updates a shot? I hang my head in shame and say "no" every time.

What"s the solution....I don"t know, seriously, I don"t know. Somewhere in the middle I guess.

Hold on folks, it"ll be interesting.  

Key Word - volunteers.

I have the software on my pc and can easy knock out a DVD of a poker game with commentary and graphics worth a £10er in a few days if i had enough footage.
Im happy to help in the future.

[Paulie_D]

I have the software on my pc and can easy knock out a DVD of a poker game with commentary and graphics worth a £10er in a few days if i had enough footage.
Im happy to help in the future.

Of course....most of us do...but that"s not the issue under discussion.

The issue, at least it appears to me, is not the quality of the video feed....it"s the quality of the forum updates.

People are complaining that they liked the way the updates were before and want them back. Yes, a DVD would sort of substitute but that"s not what they are asking for. The answer is, quite simply, as Des and Richard have said, a resources one....find the right people, willing and able to do it...at the right price.

Ian and Amanda worked very hard at DTD to cover what they could and should be applauded for their efforts...we need more like them.