Author Topic: Small to mid pairs cash...  (Read 6273 times)

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pokerpops

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Small to mid pairs cash...
« on: September 27, 2010, 16:05:51 PM »
Playing £.50/£1 last evening at the local casino and had two examples of how a lot of people seem to play small to mid pairs...

First - there"s a straddle to £2 most of the table call round to the original straddler who raise to £62 total....
I opted to fold
Button, who had limp called with AKo, then shoves for an extra £30 which is called with a pair of sixes

Second - again straddled to £2 and called in four or five spots when next to act makes it £22. All fold and he shows a pair of Jacks.

Debate ensues about how hard it is to play pairs in this range....

I"m more inclined to keep the raise at my standard level based on position and number of callers before me/the individuals left to act - to me these moves look like a fear of the flop and of being outplayed. Now, I get outplayed often enough, but I think the big raise means you lose value when you hit, and it"s also rather surprising how often you can c-bet an A high flop with 10 10 or  JJ and see the three or four callers all fold...
It"s also very easy to disguise your hand and get maximum value when you do hit

But one of the culprits here is a seriously successful player so... answers on a postacrd please
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Marty719

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 16:17:13 PM »
totally dependant on sooooooooo many factors.  Stack sizes, history, image, game flow, etc

standardised bet-sizing is obv usually a good idea, but at 100NL live, people do not tend to pay enough attention and you can get away with a bit more.
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deanp27

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 17:38:23 PM »
i love local casino strat
Looking forward to making my first day 2

bigredders

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 12:20:18 PM »
I don"t think its a case of being outplayed, its just if you make it too small then your asking for players to call. Once the first few call then the others have to call for value. Before you know it you are in a 6 way pot with a middle pair with quite a bit invested. Therefore unless you hit your set you are stuffed!

pokerpops

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 11:39:31 AM »

I don"t think its a case of being outplayed, its just if you make it too small then your asking for players to call. Once the first few call then the others have to call for value. Before you know it you are in a 6 way pot with a middle pair with quite a bit invested. Therefore unless you hit your set you are stuffed!


but....
We don"t have "quite a bit" invested if we keep our open raise size at around 4BB and if we get 5 or 6 callers with our 66 and we hit an AK6 flop we get paid so much more... and if we don""t hit we can play (or fold) from there

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Marty719

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 12:34:48 PM »
Thts a big if tho wen we are only 100x or below.
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noble1

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 13:21:15 PM »
here u go, test your skills :)  bit of fun - http://www.testyourpoker.com/




157 to beat , gg gla...

edit - trying to make it bigger , failing lol lol miserably
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 13:57:09 PM by noble1 »

pokerpops

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2010, 16:26:48 PM »
Nowhere near noble"s score but - apropos this thread...

"The greatest overall strength in your game is Bet Size. You are better than 90.62% of all people in this area. You have the ability to profit significantly from this skill. Continue to take advantage of it!"  :)
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Marty719

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 16:27:07 PM »
In order for us to analyze your game and give you the best advice, we require that players take the test seriously.
Our analyzer was not able to give you a score, because of the unusual strategy you used.
Work on improving your game and come back and try our test again. If you believe you reached this message in error,
please contact us. Error code: 25


Brag^^^^
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AMRN

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 16:32:52 PM »
Apparently my river play is better than 97.1% of people, but my flop play sucks.  117 scored overall - pants I guess.

pokerpops

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 16:37:06 PM »

In order for us to analyze your game and give you the best advice, we require that players take the test seriously.
Our analyzer was not able to give you a score, because of the unusual strategy you used.
Work on improving your game and come back and try our test again. If you believe you reached this message in error,
please contact us. Error code: 25


Brag^^^^


Just an old bloke living the dream

Proud to be an APAT Forum Team member 2013
Prouder still of being part of the Raise for Jack team, Silver medalists 2019

noble1

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 15:37:42 PM »

Playing £.50/£1 last evening at the local casino and had two examples of how a lot of people seem to play small to mid pairs...

First - there"s a straddle to £2 most of the table call round to the original straddler who raise to £62 total....
I opted to fold
Button, who had limp called with AKo, then shoves for an extra £30 which is called with a pair of sixes

Second - again straddled to £2 and called in four or five spots when next to act makes it £22. All fold and he shows a pair of Jacks.

Debate ensues about how hard it is to play pairs in this range....

I"m more inclined to keep the raise at my standard level based on position and number of callers before me/the individuals left to act - to me these moves look like a fear of the flop and of being outplayed. Now, I get outplayed often enough, but I think the big raise means you lose value when you hit, and it"s also rather surprising how often you can c-bet an A high flop with 10 10 or  JJ and see the three or four callers all fold...
It"s also very easy to disguise your hand and get maximum value when you do hit

But one of the culprits here is a seriously successful player so... answers on a postacrd please


Quote
First - there"s a straddle to £2 most of the table call round to the original straddler who raise to £62 total....
I opted to fold
Button, who had limp called with AKo, then shoves for an extra £30 which is called with a pair of sixes

pretty sure you have worked this out to be questionable david :)  Mr-66 needs to work on his bet sizing and his overall strategy and Mr-AKo who has no fold equity needs to work out he his a 45% dog mostly and that he will lose money in the long run.

Quote
Second - again straddled to £2 and called in four or five spots when next to act makes it £22. All fold and he shows a pair of Jacks.

Posted by: david3103 -
Quote
I"m more inclined to keep the raise at my standard level based on position and number of callers before me/the individuals left to act

Mr-JJ looks ok"ish to me, 4x plus a bb added for each caller..

Quote
to me these moves look like a fear of the flop and of being outplayed. Now, I get outplayed often enough, but I think the big raise means you lose value when you hit, and it"s also rather surprising how often you can c-bet an A high flop with 10 10 or  JJ and see the three or four callers all fold...
It"s also very easy to disguise your hand and get maximum value when you do hit

not quite sure what you want to know David? do i agree that these moves are out of fear? yes sometimes, i"d add that this can also indicate that they are clueless maniacs :)
A overly big raise means you lose value? yes i agree..
C-bet mostly against these types? yes i agree..
Play abc and bet for value against these types? yes i agree..
Do i think you are getting outplayed mostly? no i do not, if you are applying what thoughts you have wrote here on how to go about playing these opponents then if they cannot work out that calling with worse hands is a leak especially when you are disciplined enough to know when to fold/know when you are beat and know position etc etc blah blah..

Quote
Debate ensues about how hard it is to play pairs in this range....

any hand is if it does not improve.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 15:39:27 PM by noble1 »

AJDUK

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 18:56:18 PM »

"The greatest overall strength in your game is Bet Size. You are better than 90.62% of all people in this area. You have the ability to profit significantly from this skill. Continue to take advantage of it!"  :)



Apparently my river play is better than 97.1% of people, but my flop play sucks.  117 scored overall - pants I guess.


How/where did you receive these comments - did you sign up? I just got the score, which was 124 FWIW.
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AMRN

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 19:14:20 PM »

How/where did you receive these comments - did you sign up? I just got the score, which was 124 FWIW.


yeah, signed up (for free) and got an email with some detailed comments

mouth146

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Re: Small to mid pairs cash...
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 20:06:26 PM »
I have no concept of how you can apply strategical thinking to a local casino cash game on a generalised basis. Due to the personalities present, as well as the massively different range of ability, each cash game can only ever be based on that exact table.

For example, I used to sometimes play cash at Southport MInt Casino, until I was barred (That"s a whole other thread) JOhn Eames used to play there for a while as he lived locally. The other 9 players were all locals, most of whom hadn"t played cash anywhere else on any regular basis, so had a limited idea of how to play - and that"s being kind. Two of those locals, both middle aged men who should have known better, just wanted to beat John (who they used to call the internet kid,) and so would simply call his raises and go allin if they hit any part of the flop, regardless of position, regardless of pot size, regardless of how many others in the pot. IF you can find that strategy anywhere in a book please send me a link.

Then there would always be someone playing tight on a relatively short stack, who would wait all nite for aces, kings, or even ak, and throw it all in with the guarantee the whole (loose) table would call with anything (for something called value) and of course he would get busted and get up shakin his head to return again next week with his wages and do the same thing all over again.

The best fun for me was watching when they started to play round of each, with only half the players having an understanding of how to play OH and trying to claim flushes with one card, or gettin all their dough in with AdAs2c7h on a flop of 8h9h10h.

I play cash at manchester G and would never try to apply  logic to anyone or any situation at the table until i have got a good idea of each player"s range and style of game, it"s different every time.