APAT Payout Structures

[AAroddersAA]

Hi All

Saw a discussion on another Poker forum today about the payout structures of the APAT events. People generally seemed to think that the structure was too flat and too top heavy. Also players are not allowed to make deals to compensate for this.

What do the people to regularly play these events think? Are you happy with the current structure or would you like to see APAT move to a more traditional payout structure? Also would you like to see deal making allowed?

I understand the reasons APAT have given as to why it is setup this way but I am now wondering if, it was more traditional, APAT would attract even more players and get more people travelling to live events.

So what is the feeling? Is it OK as it is or would we like to see some changes looked at for next season? My own view is that the prize structure is pretty much OK but as deal making is allowed in the pro events, it should be OK in the amateur events as well. I understand there might be an issue with the added value though as well as we nee to complete the tournaments due to the importance of the medals.

Not sure if I have posted this in the right section of this forum, please move it if it is incorrect.

[Marty719]

No deal making imo - think the payout structure could be a bit less flat but in a friendly organisation like APAT, deals would almost be expected by lots of people.  If deals were to come into play, savers should not be included.

I read somewhere else that an organisation give everyone a red and a black card when deals are proposed.  Reds are to accept, black are to decline.  Cards are pushed forward face down and if there are any blacks in the pile...no deal.  Think this is a good way of doing it, esp in such a tight knit organisation where people may not want to say no.

[daveyb147]

Just my humble opinion.
 I like the payout structure as it is.The first prize makes it well worth entering and to take money off the top to give 50th place a tenner,doesnt appeal to me.I also like the no deals rule.It makes the final table all about going for the win,which imo makes it more exciting.If we were playing for hundreds of thousands as the pros do i may have a different opinion,but for apat i think it is spot on as is.Most apat events seem to sell out fairly quickly apart from the ones not in the uk,,but i guess theses events are about introducing apat to a wider audience.

[Rod_Paradise]

[Paulie_D]

I have no problem with the flat/top-heavy payout structure precisely for the reasons APAT have laid out.

APAT doesn"t really have any problems selling out it"s UK events and unless the number of available seats were to rise dramatically, I see no likelihood of any change in the pay-out structure.

Just because OTHER poker organisations have a more structured payout structure doesn"t make theirs better.

Overall, if I"m going to get a medal/top spot, I want to EARN it by better (or luckier) play not through trying to ladder up the payout structure by sitting back.

On the deal-making side, APAT have rules against it (for obvious reasons) but, in truth, there is very little they can do to stop it..other than throwing out bans if it"s discovered. I wouldn"t do it but others might...it smacks of collusion too much for me.

[Paulie_D]

[Rod_Paradise]

[Paulie_D]

...and a flatter payout gradient is far preferable.

Preferable to you....but it sounds like we"d be arguing about a few quid either way. At the end of the day, we go in knowing the structure and people can vote with their feet/wallets.

I have no problem with a "stepped" structure rather than "sloped" one and, like I said, selling out the majority of the UK events hasn"t proved to be a huge problem so far.

[Marty719]

I sorta disagree w/ ur reasoning Paulie.  I play the events, but would still prefer the payout structure was different.  Its one of the few events I dnt play for $, rather for the people, the tournament structure and enjoyment.  A better payout structure would add to it for me, but I would not want to "vote with my feet" for the reasons mentioned.

[George2Loose]

Not talking about payouts from 27th onwards- just the final table payout structure. I have no idea why APAT differs in this area.

APAT is a "training ground" for amateurs. Make no sense why their final table payout structure should differ from any other major tournament in the world.

I think this would be part of APAt"s evolution. We"ve had tweaks to the stucture- also introduced antes. Think this is the next step.

[Paulie_D]

I sorta disagree w/ ur reasoning Paulie.  I play the events, but would still prefer the payout structure was different.  Its one of the few events I dnt play for $, rather for the people, the tournament structure and enjoyment.  A better payout structure would add to it for me, but I would not want to "vote with my feet" for the reasons mentioned.

My problem...if I can call it that...is that I feel that by changing the payout structures something else would change...I don"t know if I can verbalise it precisely, but I think we"d lose something by it...probably something in the people/enjoyment.

I disagree with your word "better"...just because something is traditional...doesn"t make it better.

[Paulie_D]

APAT is a "training ground" for amateurs. Make no sense why their final table payout structure should differ from any other major tournament in the world.

It makes sense to me...and although I have deep and abiding love for APAT...it"s not a MAJOR tournament. Perhaps that"s EXACTLY the reason why it"s different...because we are amateurs and are playing for the medals...the cash is a bonus.

[Marty719]

I sorta disagree w/ ur reasoning Paulie.  I play the events, but would still prefer the payout structure was different.  Its one of the few events I dnt play for $, rather for the people, the tournament structure and enjoyment.  A better payout structure would add to it for me, but I would not want to "vote with my feet" for the reasons mentioned.

My problem...if I can call it that...is that I feel that by changing the payout structures something else would change...I don"t know if I can verbalise it precisely, but I think we"d lose something by it...probably something in the people/enjoyment.

I disagree with your word "better"...just because something is traditional...doesn"t make it better.

fwiw I dnt think you would lose ANY people, and I dnt see how it would alter enjoyment.

[Marty719]

APAT is a "training ground" for amateurs. Make no sense why their final table payout structure should differ from any other major tournament in the world.

It makes sense to me...and although I have deep and abiding love for APAT...it"s not a MAJOR tournament. Perhaps that"s EXACTLY the reason why it"s different...because we are amateurs and are playing for the medals...the cash is a bonus.

Surely there would still be medals with a more traditional payout structure also?  If the money doesnt matter, surely neither does the payout structure?  Im sure the $ matters for a lot of ppl playing.

[George2Loose]

I sorta disagree w/ ur reasoning Paulie.  I play the events, but would still prefer the payout structure was different.  Its one of the few events I dnt play for $, rather for the people, the tournament structure and enjoyment.  A better payout structure would add to it for me, but I would not want to "vote with my feet" for the reasons mentioned.

My problem...if I can call it that...is that I feel that by changing the payout structures something else would change...I don"t know if I can verbalise it precisely, but I think we"d lose something by it...probably something in the people/enjoyment.

I disagree with your word "better"...just because something is traditional...doesn"t make it better.

Spose I"m coming from the point of view that APAT has always been a starting place for those who are adapting to bigger deepstack comps and no matter what level of poker you play at you will never come across a payout structure which APAT has.

I have no idea how this would effect finals or whether it would in the future if things changed- I"ve not watched enough to know. However what I do know is that it is a huge disadvantage for the big stack having a flat payout structure to 3rd.

I understand playing ftw but sometimes it"s correct to ladder and it does have a profound effect psychologically on how people play. This whole facet to the game is completely missed with the current payout structure. All imo of course- as I"ve said I"ve probably not witnessed enough finals to have a qualified opinion on it. Maybe trial it at a couple of events next season?