How do we maximise value here?

[TheSnapper]

Based on some assumptions....

• Mouth is a good thinking player


• Mouth views Steve as a a good thinking player


• Steve is Never folding

Based on recent history Steve is at the top end of what villain perceives as his range, I also think villain"s range for flatting the 4 bet ip is wider than some give credit for. Would you 100% 5 bet AA here versus a somewhat adjusted 4 bet range?

So lets give villain a wide range of AA,KdKh,QQ-JJ,AJs+,AKo.

AA,KdKh,QQ are felting no matter what the action. Maybe some case for villain being able to get away from AA but not much.

JJ,AcJc,AhJh,AsJs, fold or get jiggy, weak lead is good.

AcKc,AhKh,AsKs,AcQc,AhQh,AsQs,AKo, may call a small single street bet ip, weak lead is good.

The rest are strong draws & combos that can fold to significant action, semi bluff ship or more likely, take the excellent odds a weak lead offers by flatting.

I prefer the weak ~18k lead but its very marginally preferable to shipping (yes shipping, you"re either getting action or not no matter what betsize other than the weak inducing size) which is often perceived weaker.
A tighter preflop range for villain though and I think I prefer shipping.

Nice betsizing all round btw wp.

[George2Loose]

OK here"s how it played out.....

I went for the line of the weak small donk bet to try and induce a shove by offering apparent fold equity..... I lead out for 12k into the 56k pot, and she snap-folded.

At the time, my railer suggested the small bet was not the optimal play and we debated for a while.... hence posting it here for review.

results orientated ldo

[mouth146]

hello boys

I was notified by a friend that this hand was being discussed so thought i"d pop along and have a look. Unfortunately all this talk of VPIP IDO 3bet and more has left me confused and disorientated, so much so it took me a while to remember what I had in this particular hand.

AS George pointed out, I am indeed a woman, and obviously I therefore only really play the top ten starting hands, with which I limp call every raise pre, then proceed to check call all bets on flop, turn and river. without a second thought as to whether I may be ahead or behind. Top pair FTW!

In this particular hand I had actually found myself with a red and black ace. Now, call me tight as a drum (a washing machine drum) but I really only like to get involved with pretty hands, such as two red aces or even two black ones, I"m all for equality. But a red and a black one - it just didn"t sit well with me.

However, the flop came and of course the cards on it were irellevant, as everyone knows aces can"t be beaten, so i prepared to flat call of the bets until the river, when obviuosly I would win. Then the most awful thing happened!


The glass of neat gin I was drinking slipped out of my hand (I always get slightly sweaty palms during a final table) and fell onto the computer desk: the glass smashed and gin went everywhere, including all over my mouse mat, and as I  went to call, the mouse slipped and accidentally clicked the fold button!

GUtted doesn"t even begin to cover it. Obv I would have won and in turn won the whole comp, but unfortunately this incident put me on tilt so much I went allin the next hand with KK which was called by AJ, who hit a Jack on the flop, and of course an obligatory jack on the river. MBN.

NOte to self - keep gin well away from PC in future. Oh and don"t come on forums where you haven"t got a clue what they"re on about either.

Anyone who has shares in a gin factory, or who understands what this thread is about feel free to get in touch via my blog -  http://gob****eonlegs.blogspot.com/

kisses xx

[deanp27]

bet small ftw

[duke3016]

hello boys

I was notified by a friend that this hand was being discussed so thought i"d pop along and have a look. Unfortunately all this talk of VPIP IDO 3bet and more has left me confused and disorientated, so much so it took me a while to remember what I had in this particular hand.

AS George pointed out, I am indeed a woman, and obviously I therefore only really play the top ten starting hands, with which I limp call every raise pre, then proceed to check call all bets on flop, turn and river. without a second thought as to whether I may be ahead or behind. Top pair FTW!

In this particular hand I had actually found myself with a red and black ace. Now, call me tight as a drum (a washing machine drum) but I really only like to get involved with pretty hands, such as two red aces or even two black ones, I"m all for equality. But a red and a black one - it just didn"t sit well with me.

However, the flop came and of course the cards on it were irellevant, as everyone knows aces can"t be beaten, so i prepared to flat call of the bets until the river, when obviuosly I would win. Then the most awful thing happened!


The glass of neat gin I was drinking slipped out of my hand (I always get slightly sweaty palms during a final table) and fell onto the computer desk: the glass smashed and gin went everywhere, including all over my mouse mat, and as I  went to call, the mouse slipped and accidentally clicked the fold button!

GUtted doesn"t even begin to cover it. Obv I would have won and in turn won the whole comp, but unfortunately this incident put me on tilt so much I went allin the next hand with KK which was called by AJ, who hit a Jack on the flop, and of course an obligatory jack on the river. MBN.

NOte to self - keep gin well away from PC in future. Oh and don"t come on forums where you haven"t got a clue what they"re on about either.

Anyone who has shares in a gin factory, or who understands what this thread is about feel free to get in touch via my blog -  http://gob****eonlegs.blogspot.com/

kisses xx

This post deserves lots of love IMO - Nice one Caroline

[Swinebag]

hello boys

I was notified by a friend that this hand was being discussed so thought i"d pop along and have a look. Unfortunately all this talk of VPIP IDO 3bet and more has left me confused and disorientated, so much so it took me a while to remember what I had in this particular hand.

AS George pointed out, I am indeed a woman, and obviously I therefore only really play the top ten starting hands, with which I limp call every raise pre, then proceed to check call all bets on flop, turn and river. without a second thought as to whether I may be ahead or behind. Top pair FTW!

In this particular hand I had actually found myself with a red and black ace. Now, call me tight as a drum (a washing machine drum) but I really only like to get involved with pretty hands, such as two red aces or even two black ones, I"m all for equality. But a red and a black one - it just didn"t sit well with me.

However, the flop came and of course the cards on it were irellevant, as everyone knows aces can"t be beaten, so i prepared to flat call of the bets until the river, when obviuosly I would win. Then the most awful thing happened!


The glass of neat gin I was drinking slipped out of my hand (I always get slightly sweaty palms during a final table) and fell onto the computer desk: the glass smashed and gin went everywhere, including all over my mouse mat, and as I  went to call, the mouse slipped and accidentally clicked the fold button!

GUtted doesn"t even begin to cover it. Obv I would have won and in turn won the whole comp, but unfortunately this incident put me on tilt so much I went allin the next hand with KK which was called by AJ, who hit a Jack on the flop, and of course an obligatory jack on the river. MBN.

NOte to self - keep gin well away from PC in future. Oh and don"t come on forums where you haven"t got a clue what they"re on about either.

Anyone who has shares in a gin factory, or who understands what this thread is about feel free to get in touch via my blog -  http://gob****eonlegs.blogspot.com/

kisses xx

up there for post of the year

n1

[mouth146]

shattering all the illusions now i have to admit i thought steve was at it when he raised again. Bear in mind i"d been 4 bettin with air for quite some time against very weak players and hadn"t seen many hands, so had been pretty busy myself to make sure i kept my stack up where i wanted it in order to get through the inevitable bad beat coming as soon as i did pick up a hand. (you know that is the law of the final table)

i knew he was a good player, but he hadnt had many showdowns at all, and seemed to have been targeting Dev, so i have to assume him capable of raising with a wide range... afterwards i get told he is tighter than simon cowell"s waistband and always has the hand. that"s afterwards.

i don"t want to get involved with him but i also don"t want him to start targeting me, as i"m bb to his cutoff if i remember rightly. i found a crap hand out of position and called with it - sorry but it was aj. to add insult to injury, it wasnt even soooted.

if i"d hit my ace i would have certainly felt i was ahead as i didnt for a minute put him on a big ace. ideally though i was obv after some dream flop with say 3 jacks on it lol. flop came king high and he put in what looked like a ridiculously small bet, which based on his previous play, looked like he wanted me there. a bigger bet and i probably would have tried a hero move, so  i think i got off quite lightly.

quite honestly, i think i would have called him with any suited connectors there simply as i felt he was targetting me, aj is not a hand i tend to call raises with - honest!

if you"re at all interested, my theory stood up for the FT bad beats - my connection went, i came back to 89k found aces in the bb and got no action, then found kk in sb, raised up, bb slammed them allin as i hoped he would, tabled .... AJ - hit trip jacks, sixth place and 50 dollar, no love him long time

the irony was not lost on me.

[Mikeyboy9361]

hello boys

I was notified by a friend that this hand was being discussed so thought i"d pop along and have a look. Unfortunately all this talk of VPIP IDO 3bet and more has left me confused and disorientated, so much so it took me a while to remember what I had in this particular hand.

AS George pointed out, I am indeed a woman, and obviously I therefore only really play the top ten starting hands, with which I limp call every raise pre, then proceed to check call all bets on flop, turn and river. without a second thought as to whether I may be ahead or behind. Top pair FTW!

In this particular hand I had actually found myself with a red and black ace. Now, call me tight as a drum (a washing machine drum) but I really only like to get involved with pretty hands, such as two red aces or even two black ones, I"m all for equality. But a red and a black one - it just didn"t sit well with me.

However, the flop came and of course the cards on it were irellevant, as everyone knows aces can"t be beaten, so i prepared to flat call of the bets until the river, when obviuosly I would win. Then the most awful thing happened!


The glass of neat gin I was drinking slipped out of my hand (I always get slightly sweaty palms during a final table) and fell onto the computer desk: the glass smashed and gin went everywhere, including all over my mouse mat, and as I  went to call, the mouse slipped and accidentally clicked the fold button!

GUtted doesn"t even begin to cover it. Obv I would have won and in turn won the whole comp, but unfortunately this incident put me on tilt so much I went allin the next hand with KK which was called by AJ, who hit a Jack on the flop, and of course an obligatory jack on the river. MBN.

NOte to self - keep gin well away from PC in future. Oh and don"t come on forums where you haven"t got a clue what they"re on about either.

Anyone who has shares in a gin factory, or who understands what this thread is about feel free to get in touch via my blog -  http://gob****eonlegs.blogspot.com/

kisses xx

Brilliant! A woman with a sense of humour!

[noble1]

a few holes in the story though , big blind huh

[PHIL_TC]

hahahaha.. superb! Caroline please post more often.. your posts make me smile  

[AJDUK]

flop came king high and he put in what looked like a ridiculously small bet, which based on his previous play, looked like he wanted me there. a bigger bet and i probably would have tried a hero move, so  i think i got off quite lightly.

I"ll come clean as the railer. ^^^ is exactly why I felt the bet was too small. Steve had not put a bet in like this whilst I had been watching. And she didn"t snap fold it was a semi tank fold. I was convinced that putting a standard half pot bet in would do better in the long run as Steve"s range could be anything at that point, given the history.

The slow fold seemed like the smell of a rat at the time and I thought Steve missed out on some chips.

Steve argued that with the stack & pot sizes, villain had no fold equity if she shoves OTT of a half pot bet and hence more likely to fold to the half pot bet. I disagreed because if Steve did bet half pot and get shoved on, his stack would still put him in 3rd place if he folds. He wouldn"t be crippled. There is FE even if the numbers don"t say there is.

It was just my 2p at the time and I"m no expert. Plus Steve is a much better player than me, so felt a bit bad questioning his line whilst the game was still playing out. I"m glad Steve posted this because it seems there is support for both our POV"s and that"s why we all love this game!!

PS - a good time after the fact, but whilst he was still playing, Steve said he thought that on reflection checking was the most +EV move in the long run. I said I would never check that flop as the turn could ruin everything if it gets checked behind. That"s when I suggested we shut up about it and let him concentrate on the rest of the FT!!!!

WP Steve GG BCPC FTW    

[AMRN]

It was just my 2p at the time and I"m no expert. Plus Steve is a much better player than me, so felt a bit bad questioning his line whilst the game was still playing out. I"m glad Steve posted this because it seems there is support for both our POV"s and that"s why we all love this game!!

LOL Andy - I wish!!

And as for debating whilst still playing..... I always play better then I know someone is actively watching, so usually benefit from a railer..... guess it stops me making really stupid plays, like ridiculously small donk bets, oh wait....

[mouth146]

The turn was obviously going to be a ten.

followed by a K on river GG me.

[SirPercival]

hello boys

I was notified by a friend that this hand was being discussed so thought i"d pop along and have a look. Unfortunately all this talk of VPIP IDO 3bet and more has left me confused and disorientated, so much so it took me a while to remember what I had in this particular hand.

AS George pointed out, I am indeed a woman, and obviously I therefore only really play the top ten starting hands, with which I limp call every raise pre, then proceed to check call all bets on flop, turn and river. without a second thought as to whether I may be ahead or behind. Top pair FTW!

In this particular hand I had actually found myself with a red and black ace. Now, call me tight as a drum (a washing machine drum) but I really only like to get involved with pretty hands, such as two red aces or even two black ones, I"m all for equality. But a red and a black one - it just didn"t sit well with me.

However, the flop came and of course the cards on it were irellevant, as everyone knows aces can"t be beaten, so i prepared to flat call of the bets until the river, when obviuosly I would win. Then the most awful thing happened!


The glass of neat gin I was drinking slipped out of my hand (I always get slightly sweaty palms during a final table) and fell onto the computer desk: the glass smashed and gin went everywhere, including all over my mouse mat, and as I  went to call, the mouse slipped and accidentally clicked the fold button!

GUtted doesn"t even begin to cover it. Obv I would have won and in turn won the whole comp, but unfortunately this incident put me on tilt so much I went allin the next hand with KK which was called by AJ, who hit a Jack on the flop, and of course an obligatory jack on the river. MBN.

NOte to self - keep gin well away from PC in future. Oh and don"t come on forums where you haven"t got a clue what they"re on about either.

Anyone who has shares in a gin factory, or who understands what this thread is about feel free to get in touch via my blog -  http://gob****eonlegs.blogspot.com/

kisses xx

Welcome to APAT Caroline, please post more as this made me PMSL.

My whole team were railing you for quite some time on Monday but I can"t say who we are because Steve and Andy are very confused by the whole thing.  

[AMRN]

My whole team were railing you for quite some time on Monday but I can"t say who we are because Steve and Andy are very confused by the whole thing.  

Confusion - a mistake that results from taking one thing to be another

Actually not "very confused by the whole thing" at all.... just don"t know your alias or team name. This is due to the fact that you declined to tell us, not because we are in any way confused. I"m guessing that your decision to keep details from us is borne from your obvious fear that we will target you and pillage your stacks mercilessly.