APAT UK Team Championship - January 2011

[MAIR]

Stuart u r very wise, a very good idea

[SirPercival]

Stuart u r very wise, a very good idea

Either you have missed my point, or you are being sarcastic, I"m not sure which.

I don"t think a "B" team is a good idea at all and I wasn"t suggesting it. There are so many teams that want to play this event I think having 3 APAT teams would be unfair on others than want to have the APAT experience.

My point is that if the reason Debs proposed a laddies team was because she "wanted to participate in an event she might not otherwise get a chance to" then why pick gender as the qualifying criteria?

We don"t (or at least I don"t) know what the qualifying criteria for the APAT team is yet but I"m pretty sure gender isn"t going to be one of them. Last year for example 2 places were picked by a random draw by Leigh's girlfriend, I guess laddies were included in the mix as well as men. I believe a similar method was used for the Betfair freeroll (to which I didn"t get picked). If this years poker results are a criteria then I am pretty sure you (Mary) will be in will a very good chance of being picked above most of the other APAT players given your UKIPT success.

I"m not going to fall out with anyone about this (as I"m not that sort of person) but I am going to express my views (as I am that sort of person).

I am all for equality and fairness. Having a team where the entry criteria is based on gender is not equal for all or fair.

[Claw75]

Stuart u r very wise, a very good idea

I think it would be a great idea if there weren"t already many more teams wanting to take part than spaces.  And there"s still no guarantee (or perhaps even likelihood) that any women would be selected for the B team.  If it wasn"t for the popularity of this event I"d have absolutely no problem with APAT entering as many teams as they wanted - let"s have a team for ethnic minorities and over 50s, whatever.

The nub of it, for me, is that the event is designed so that different poker communities/forums can take part in playing against each other, with some element of pride in the community they are representing.  The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of APAT members won"t have the opportunity to play, regardless of gender.  Allowing APAT to enter an additional team will only be taking those places away from another community keen to take part.  I realise that argument can be applied to the CoC team too, but there seem to be very good reasons for the creation of that team.

I have wanted to play in these team events since they started but have never made my chosen team.  I"m far from alone in that, and I don"t see why I should be given a special opportunity to play, at the expense of someone else, just because I"m a woman.  I don"t think it"s accurate to say that women don"t get the same opportunity as men to take part though - there were plenty in previous years" fields as I recall, and I wouldn"t be surprised if the ratio of women to men taking part was in line with the membership as a whole.

[RobGibraltar]

Fair be dammed, it"s APAT's event so if they want to have 5 teams they can do, and we can either like it or "suck it up, buttercup" (I think the expression is). Teams are invited, it"s a privilege not a right and the mob forum have always felt honoured to be regular invitees.

[bigalhx3]

not so sure about that Debs

Last years team was all male so unless I"ve missed something about previous years or there"s a female shoe in for this year I"m confused by that ...

No one is a shoe-in, male or female, and the criteria have yet to be decided for this year I imagine.  I"d hate to be picked for a team as a token woman, but still intend to apply to represent the APAT team this year, but will make my case based on my ability and results, same as everyone else.  There"s a very high chance that the team will end up being all male, but that doesn"t mean it"s not open. 

sorry i know i said i"d keep my views on this to myself, but I do feel pretty strongly about it and can"t help myself.  If it does go ahead though I wish you all the best of luck!

well said

[bigalhx3]

and if one is not a member of all those forums out there who are applying to play in the event then the chances of getting on a team are much smaller.

i think thats the hole point mary you do have to be a member to be in the teams

[TightEnd]

Stuart u r very wise, a very good idea

I think it would be a great idea if there weren"t already many more teams wanting to take part than spaces.  And there"s still no guarantee (or perhaps even likelihood) that any women would be selected for the B team.  If it wasn"t for the popularity of this event I"d have absolutely no problem with APAT entering as many teams as they wanted - let"s have a team for ethnic minorities and over 50s, whatever.

The nub of it, for me, is that the event is designed so that different poker communities/forums can take part in playing against each other, with some element of pride in the community they are representing.  The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of APAT members won"t have the opportunity to play, regardless of gender.  Allowing APAT to enter an additional team will only be taking those places away from another community keen to take part.  I realise that argument can be applied to the CoC team too, but there seem to be very good reasons for the creation of that team.

I have wanted to play in these team events since they started but have never made my chosen team.  I"m far from alone in that, and I don"t see why I should be given a special opportunity to play, at the expense of someone else, just because I"m a woman.  I don"t think it"s accurate to say that women don"t get the same opportunity as men to take part though - there were plenty in previous years" fields as I recall, and I wouldn"t be surprised if the ratio of women to men taking part was in line with the membership as a whole.

This is exactly my line, better expressed than I did!

[Jon MW]

I have no problem with the concept but every team entered represents a community of some sort. The only community that binds together all it"s members would be APAT, so however you described it and whatever you called it, a ladies team would be an APAT Ladies Team; i.e. a third APAT team, and if we tried we could probably find ten of those to fill.

As Rob suggested, it"s their tournament and they can invite whichever teams they want to play it - but I don"t really see how it would be in APAT's best interest to have a third team rather than any other community"s team.

[MintTrav]

Last year for example 2 places were picked by a random draw by Leigh's girlfriend

Strange way to pick a team. May be how I got in, for all I know, but can"t see a justification for allocating such otherwise hotly-contested team places on this basis.

[Chipaccrual]

Last year for example 2 places were picked by a random draw by Leigh's girlfriend

Strange way to pick a team. May be how I got in, for all I know, but can"t see a justification for allocating such otherwise hotly-contested team places on this basis.

I hope no one would consider that I just gave away seats to anyone in last years team.  I laid out what I hoped was a clear a fair method for my selection of the team, and bearing in mind the team was representing APAT, I always stated that at least one of the seats would be a random selection from everyone that showed an interest in playing, so irrelevant of APAT experience, success, involvement in the APAT community, anyone who was interested at least had a chance of being in the team.

Originally this was going to be for two seats, but when we had to reduce the teams from 10 to 8 players, that simply wasn"t possible, whoever, I stuck to my commitment as best I could and did one random pick.

To this day that person doesn"t know they were a random pick, and they never will.  Everyone in the team deserved to be there, and I would say that about any of the 50+ members that showed an interest.

At one point last year, I even talked about being a non-playing captain so that I could fit someone else into the team, but had that one batted away by Des.  (He clearly knows nothignn of my poker abilities, but we won anyway   )

Whoever we invite to captain the APAT Forum team has got a very tough job on their hands.  They want to pick a team to retain the title, but at the same time I think it is important to have a team that fully represents APAT.  I don"t mean regarding age, gender or geographical location.  I refer to what APAT is about, and that is more than just winners, it"s the community, the friendships and the general good nature that is present in our structure.

But an even harder job than picking a team or retaining the title could be in then getting the trophy from Des.  

[Chipaccrual]

And one other point.  We had a long discussion in Luton regarding the winning team last year and whether they should be able to defend their title.

My opinion was that the players represented "Team APAT", and it would only be right for every member to have that opportunity to play in the team this year.

I have spoken to a number of the guys from last year, and explained the situation and my reasoning for it.  They are obviously disappointed about it, as it is a great event to play in.

Sorry guys, I genuinely hope some of you get selected this year, but whoever represents the APAT forum will, I"m sure, do us proud.

[SirPercival]

And one other point.  We had a long discussion in Luton regarding the winning team last year and whether they should be able to defend their title.

My opinion was that the players represented "Team APAT", and it would only be right for every member to have that opportunity to play in the team this year.

I have spoken to a number of the guys from last year, and explained the situation and my reasoning for it.  They are obviously disappointed about it, as it is a great event to play in.

Sorry guys, I genuinely hope some of you get selected this year, but whoever represents the APAT forum will, I"m sure, do us proud.

If I have understood this correctly Leigh you are saying that the team this year will not be the same team as last year but all last years players have the same right as all other members to apply for a place?




p.s. For the record I am happy to be playing captain, non-playing captain, player or supporter.

p.p.s. Can I at least borrow the trophy from last year?

[Waz1892]

Last year for example 2 places were picked by a random draw by Leigh's girlfriend

Strange way to pick a team. May be how I got in, for all I know, but can"t see a justification for allocating such otherwise hotly-contested team places on this basis.

Whoever we invite to captain the APAT Forum team has got a very tough job on their hands.  They want to pick a team to retain the title, but at the same time I think it is important to have a team that fully represents APAT.  I don"t mean regarding age, gender or geographical location.  I refer to what APAT is about, and that is more than just winners, it"s the community, the friendships and the general good nature that is present in our structure.But an even harder job than picking a team or retaining the title could be in then getting the trophy from Des.  

without this approach, APAT could become very elite-est for this type of tournament.

[Chipaccrual]

And one other point.  We had a long discussion in Luton regarding the winning team last year and whether they should be able to defend their title.

My opinion was that the players represented "Team APAT", and it would only be right for every member to have that opportunity to play in the team this year.

I have spoken to a number of the guys from last year, and explained the situation and my reasoning for it.  They are obviously disappointed about it, as it is a great event to play in.

Sorry guys, I genuinely hope some of you get selected this year, but whoever represents the APAT forum will, I"m sure, do us proud.

If I have understood this correctly Leigh you are saying that the team this year will not be the same team as last year but all last years players have the same right as all other members to apply for a place?




p.s. For the record I am happy to be playing captain, non-playing captain, player or supporter.

p.p.s. Can I at least borrow the trophy from last year?

Spot on Stuart.  It couldn"t be done any other way.  It will be down to the captain as to how they choose to select the team, but everyone should be entitled to put themselves forward to selection.

[SirPercival]

And one other point.  We had a long discussion in Luton regarding the winning team last year and whether they should be able to defend their title.

My opinion was that the players represented "Team APAT", and it would only be right for every member to have that opportunity to play in the team this year.

I have spoken to a number of the guys from last year, and explained the situation and my reasoning for it.  They are obviously disappointed about it, as it is a great event to play in.

Sorry guys, I genuinely hope some of you get selected this year, but whoever represents the APAT forum will, I"m sure, do us proud.

If I have understood this correctly Leigh you are saying that the team this year will not be the same team as last year but all last years players have the same right as all other members to apply for a place?




p.s. For the record I am happy to be playing captain, non-playing captain, player or supporter.

p.p.s. Can I at least borrow the trophy from last year?

Spot on Stuart.  It couldn"t be done any other way.  It will be down to the captain as to how they choose to select the team, but everyone should be entitled to put themselves forward to selection.

Excellent.

Now, about that trophy............