APAT Season 5: Discussion

[AceOnTheRiver]

My observations

Make the payout structure more "standard"

Added value in S4 has been superb - no need to change (unless BF want to add more of course  )

Overseas events are superb and expand the community so long as they are not at the expense of UK based events

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Satellites - UK events, no package, it should be about the maximum number of seats available (also for me the satellites after the direct buy-in for the worlds seemed bizarre)

Satellites - Overseas events, Package with 1 or 2 packages "guaranteed" by Betfair

Online Series - These have been on Saturday Nights with the exception of the Worlds which was a Sunday and by far the best attended - Can they all be moved to Sunday as it"s an easier night to play with less disruption to domestic....erm...commitmitments

Online League - I can only speak from my perspective and my division"s persepctive which is that with a good team and a proacticve captain it works very well. I do have sympathy for those active teams in div 3 who are getting very low numbers and therefore reduced value for the same buy-in. Can BF no more with their advertising both online and on the page to promote the league as I think they are great events to "dip your toe" into online poker (low buy-in, added value and friendly)

One small point, from a practical point of view, whilst I accept that many negotiations and finer details will go up to the 11th hour, can we at least have some "dates for our diaries" in advance of the main announcement - in S4 I think we had 1 week"s notice in advance of the first online championship and only a few weeks notice for Swansea.

Keep up the good work guys and I look forward to seeing you all in the thriving European metropolis which is, Coventry!!

[Claw75]

Season 5 Schedule and Details will be announced soon.

In the meantime, feel free to discuss areas you would like to see improved, changed, or introduced.

There have been a number of other threads in the past few months covering subjects like :-

• Payout Structure


• Added Value


• Overseas Events


• Pro League


• Satellite Structures (Package or Not to Package)

Discuss away................

Details being announced soon does kind of suggest that things have already been decided on for next season.  Is there still some latitude to change things if this thread shows an obvious demand for it?  

Assuming there is;
-I think the Pro-League needs to be ditched and those seats redistributed to the £75 event. 
-Deals need to be permitted. 
-A more conventional pay-out structure needs to be introduced.
-A wide selection of sandwiches available all day
-"Paper" updates for day 1 - live feed for final table only if possible
-Anyone making day 2 of National events to have cashed (earlier start on day 1 if required?)
-Welsh event absolutely necessary??

+1 to pretty much all of this - I like jollies to Wales though

[Sunseekers]

Hi forum, i am reading some negativity on the non uk events which is totally baffling me

I have been lucky enough to travel to these events and find that they conbine short breaks and poker together sweetly

Me misses is a non poker player but she fully enjoyed the apat spirt at both Dublin and Tallinn. Apater"s abroad make a fun and compelling bunch to say the least. Great camaraderie for the uk contingent abroad.

These games are also some of the toughest i have played. The winner of tallinn imo was an awsome player and you have to dodge a lot of mine fields in the emeald isle game. Points at these events are twice as hard to earn as the UK games.

Gotta go with Phil, Las vegas in s5 would be a beauty and with good planning you could see a good turnout from apaters

i hope s5 continues with these jaunts abroad and apat goes fully global with betfair helping out players with cost of travel and packages. HINT HINT

Shout out for Rich and Leigh who without their hard work none of these events would have been possible.

[TheSnapper]

Okay, if we"re being pedantic, replace "all" with "most of". The point is that this proposal is designed to take away the team element and reward the top two disproportionately, while players further down the final table would receive negligible points.

Not being pedantic at all John. I think any points I made were reasoned and factually supported.

The point of the proposal is not to negate the numerical advantage which some teams have and deserve and I don"t see how it does that. The trojan work from Captains like yourself in recruiting players, should be rewarded and carry "some" advantage.

I think its safe to say the top two would be part of a Team and the points secured for first and second would I imagine, hugely benefit those Teams.

It is an extreme scheme, designed solely with the intention of favouring small teams.

With regard to the rest of your post, Brendan, I"m not going to respond.

I really don"t get the extreme scheme thing, I propose to double the points available and to award them as per a tried and tested standard prizepool percentage breakdown, teams can still aggregate upto 4 scorers as per current format and league points are awarded to the top 3 aggregate scores as per current format.

Working on the premise that.......

• The larger teams have a greater chance of multiple final tablists ( see post #25 ).


• More players at the FT equals a huge advantage given aggregate points totals are counted


• A final tablist with 2 team mates also present has a huge advantage in the teamplay dynamic

How can you possibly favour small teams.

And, if indeed it was my "intention to favour small teams" then I have failed miserably.

[Robbiebox]

BETFAIR ~ As everyone has said, been superb. Try to keep if they can offer anything close to that which they added last year.

LIVE EVENTS ~ Make the UK ones as centrally based as possible, most people have to travel back to work Mon am and the shorter the travel the better on average. Coventry, Birmingham, Luton, DTD, Manchester, Sheffield, Stoke ~ these are all within 2 to 3 hours at most for almost all. PRO events, majority want them scrapped to create greater room for the main event and I have to agree, the Sunday might be the way to go as many have suggested if there is a real reason to keep them.
Play to the money on the Saturday is something I have said for 2 seasons. Not everyone stays over and to come back short stacked to play a hand or two and not cash can be avoided by starting/finishing an hour or so earlier/later.
Make the World main event a little better value, more chips(15,000?), extra level(s) (500/1000, 1200/2400, 2500/5000 ?), 3 days
Payouts I prefer a more stepped payout, but not bothered as long as I know in advance, however I don"t really understand why deals are not allowed, it is only natural. 
Foreign venues I dont really see the attraction for a £75 game to travel that far or for that cost. If they bring in the necessary newbies/coverage to keep the sponsor happy then stick with them, but if not lets have some more UK based events. If so, Spain in Summer.

ONLINE CHAMPIONSHIPS ~ Great events with the right price and structure. I know the night will always be controversial, but surely a Sunday has to better for the majority and cause less "clashes" with other poker and "life" events. As someone said the one Sunday game got a lot more runners than any of the Saturday games.

ONLINE LEAGUE ~ This to me is the biggest dissapointment and I would like to see it totally re-invented. Many have been playing(signed up) for a team not getting numbers playing regularly, then they stop playing at all because it clearly isnt fair and this cant be what APAT or Betfair want. Teams have to be equal sized and should have a certain number.
I would like to see something more along the lines of the current http://www.circuscasino.com/online-poker/promotions-and-bonuses/las-vegas-team-challenge/ on Circus poker, where people get a team together (4, 6 8 players ) and there is a play-off (live or online?) based on points accrued during the league. This has a greater chance of keeping people interested. Teams could be from people who form from their current teams (Liverpool Carjackers, Liverpool Fraudsters, Liverpool Shoplifters etc ) or from mates (bringing new people into APAT) or could be advertised for on the Forum.
Sunday nights for these are great too.

[Honeybadg]

S5 Thoughts

Online Events - please keep them on Saturday night.
Sunday League - I thought Brendan"s idea was a good one - I would also look to start these earlier and/or speed up the structure. (Get some earlier antes in there)
Pro League - If there is again a big package available - I would suggest that the points counted would be for your best 3 or 4 or x finishes. This year I couldn"t make Swansea, played London finished 8th, and then couldn"t make Aberdeen once it was moved to Sunday ... thus the package was gone ... and hence the big reason to play gone also. If the best 3 finishes counted everyone would remain much more in play and turnouts may have help up/increased. All that said it does feel that the loss of £75 seats is a loss.

Perhaps there should be less Pro League events (at the bigger venues). There might also be a case made for "Pro" online events with larger buyins. If the idea is to draw more people into the APAT circle that might work.

L

[Fatcatstu]

online - our phil does his best to drum up support for stockoton, but we arent s big an area as the rest of you so we are fighting an uphill battle, had some great results this season with rewards due to other teams having more luckboxes.

Every event to be held in Tllinn please.

me to re-retain my european ttitle (yes i am keeping it this year)

[Mikeyboy9361]

Live events - Love "em, only managed to play DTD and Dublin this year so far, really enjoyed Dublin ( apart from the Poker!!) but I can"t really figure out the point of the other overseas trips, is APAT wanting to be an international brand? If not, as some one said earlier all you are doing is providing a great tournament for the locals, lets have "em in the UK and then more of the UK membership can get to play more APAT. Lets face it there aren"t that many of us that can afford the time off work or the expense. As for a Vegas tournament that surely is just a crazy idea.

On line events - The $50 tournaments are terrific value, but Saturday nights can be problematical for a lot of people, I am sure there would be bigger fields if they were on a Sunday.

Pro League - 20 Grand sponsorship, for what seems to have been a very hit and miss tour? This seems way over the top, Betfair"s added value has been fantastic, but surely that 20K could have been allocated better. Scrap it.

On line League - Being in Div 2, this season I haven"t taken that much notice of the other Divisions, but it is very clear that the bigger the team, the more likely the win. In a recent match Luton and Sunderland had 38 from 65 runners. But they are great fun to play in and the structure is excellent for such a reasonable buy in. Maybe limiting teams to a maximum of say ten, and splitting "em into A teams and B teams might be an idea?

[RioRodent]

Online League Points Suggestion - Team Score = Team $won. This way higher finishes attract increasingly higher portion of points, also slightly more points are awarded for scoring in a bigger field event.

Payout Structure - Change to a conventional structure, add alternate"s entrys to the main prize pool.

Deals - To be allowed for cash prize pool, any added seat etc. has to be played for. I know there are plenty of people who don"t want deals and that is your perrogative; if you are still in and a deal is suggested, then just say no and the deal doesn"t happen. However, if I"m in the last 3 and the other two also wish to deal, then why should anyone else"s dislike of deals matter?

[PHIL_TC]

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Online Series - These have been on Saturday Nights with the exception of the Worlds which was a Sunday and by far the best attended - Can they all be moved to Sunday as it"s an easier night to play with less disruption to domestic....erm...commitmitments

+1 for me on JP"s points

[AMRN]

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Excellent idea..!!

[RicayBoy]

I think the overseas events really depends how APAT sees itself going forward. I would suggest that 95 pc plus of regular APAT players come from the UK (and Ireland) so maybe the one in Dublin and one other heavily promoted overseas event would do.

I would do "package" satellites for the overseas events and seat only satellites for the UK events.

I loved the idea of moving the Pro event to Sunday (would make it NL) and having a satellite on the Saturday night for any early ME blow-outs.

No real view on prize structure and deals. I"ll let you know when I get there lol!!!

I love the structure of the online League Sunday games, about right for me. I disagree with some of the arguments about team size. How can limiting the team sizes be right? Surely the idea is to get more people playing not less. I suppose you could think about pro-rata ing points earned against number of players relative to other teams could be done but that would disincentiveise (is that a word?) active recruitment of players. Do we want the league to be a cosy clique or do we want to bring more people into APAT world. That"s a no-brainer for me.

Finally, this is my first year with APAT. I"ve managed two live events and quite a few of the online ones. I"d like to thank the people whose hard work is incredible and also think Betfair"s sponsorship has been amazing. How people can moan is absolutely beyond me.

Keep up the good work guys!!

[pables]

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Online Series - These have been on Saturday Nights with the exception of the Worlds which was a Sunday and by far the best attended - Can they all be moved to Sunday as it"s an easier night to play with less disruption to domestic....erm...commitmitments

+1 for me on JP"s points

+2

[RioRodent]

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Excellent idea..!!

+1 (Damn, I swore I"d never do that! Now i"ll have to write something else.)

Rather than wait until sufficient tables are vacant for a MTT satellite, how about running £25 and/or £50 STT sats as soon as a table or two is free, providing one or two seats into the Pro event.

[Chipaccrual]

Pro League - It"s not for me and my bank roll. The main reason for not wanting it seems to be the seats taken away from the Amatuer so how about moving them to the Sunday with a satellite on Saturday nights?

Excellent idea..!!

+1 (Damn, I swore I"d never do that! Now i"ll have to write something else.)

Rather than wait until sufficient tables are vacant for a MTT satellite, how about running £25 and/or £50 STT sats as soon as a table or two is free, providing one or two seats into the Pro event.

This worked well in Aberdeen this year.  I like the idea.