Author Topic: APAT Season 5: Discussion  (Read 279536 times)

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gomarrrahh

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2010, 11:45:39 AM »
Online League: This is something IMO that isn't working. The size of the teams has a direct correlation to who wins most points over a sustained period, fact. In playing for a small team that really did overachieve last season (in terms of its numbers) we are really struggling against the sheer weight of players in teams in our division. In the 7matchdays so far, we have had 5 FT's and one winner. Which for our team size is impressive, but yet we only have 1 team point.

I never liked the new scoring system, cos it does favour large numbered teams and one thing I've never got my head round Is the conversion to 3,2,1 points for the team. I like the idea of team points/divided by team players. That gives a fair average score based on the performance of the team members. It does offer the chance for a team with a small sample of players to score points if one of their members wins vs a larger team dominating the FT with more players.
How about only the top 3 players score points from each team? That way whatever the size of the team, only the highest places from each team get points. This rewards players who finish well but because it's a smaller number who collect points it eliminates the team size advantage and concentrates on the top scorers.


Pro League:  Obviously APAT wanted this to work and it was an interesting idea, it just hasn't taken off to the level that expected/wanted I think. I don't know if this is down to publicity/betfair input/financial strain of current APATers, but it just hasn't worked. For me personally, I wont buy in to these events cos of my roll but if APAT keep it, it obv needs more work for it to be a success. Because in the eyes of the standard APATer (of which I agree myself) it's taking away the field/prize pool from the Main Event.


Abroad APATs: This really revolves around APATs general goal regarding the size and success of the organization. If bigger things are in their mindset then they must continue to promote and run the foreign based events. Someone mentioned correctly that these events have been put on top of the usual UK schedule and therefore are an added bonus and not taking away from the number of UK events we are used to.

I agree with many about the financial costs of these events being a reason why they haven't played in them. My finances won't allow me to play a lot, if any of the events abroad but the way I look at it, this is APAT branching out and creating a global base of poker. The WPT/EPT etc had to start somewhere; this is the start of APAT hopefully matching that for the amateur player.

In summary, I don't think we should be scraping events because players can't afford to play in them. If they are proving successful with the fields of players abroad and its not hurting APAT financially to run them, keep it going. I can't afford to play in the WSOP Main Event every year but I sure as hell don't wanna see it scraped.


Online Championships: For me personally, Sat night is fine but Sunday night is massive for online poker. You would definitely increase the chance of pulling more entrants if we moved to a Sunday, especially if players see the added value of the seats for the winner (speaking of newbies here)


S5 Venues: I like Stus point about us Stockton lot loving the chance to get away for a weekend and I do agree there but id also love the idea of a 40min drive to an APAT event as opposed to a 3hour drive/train journey. So I support the Newcastle leg for Season 5.
Taking in the opposition of abroad events so far from this thread with regards to cost and value for a 75pound tourney, is Vegas a realistic option?


Payout Structure: First and foremost, id like to make a day two one time so I can at least have some experience to add weight to my opinion on this matter but heyho, I can still add my thoughts till I do make it!
When this first came up on another thread, there were good and bad points and at the time I thought it boils down to this: What is APATs end game with regards to running these tournaments? Someone mentioned its APATs uniqueness in payout that makes it stand out and attract its players. You aren't always necessarily better for being unique. But if this is APATs aim, then keep the structure.

However, I always thought (and could well be wrong) that APAT is a perfect training ground for a large live MTT to hone your skills against good, large fields to hopefully make the step up to larger buyin events. Everyone enters tourneys like these to win the top prize and make money for their efforts. The payout structure should reflect this and reward the players who finish the highest. Getting the same in 4th as 9th is not only poor in the sense that it changes the dynamic of play at the FT but it doesn't set up players for the same scenario in a bigger event where they should be playing for the win and not jus settling for 9th cos they wont get paid the same as 4th in these bigger events.

Day two in the money is a must if possible. It's just too frustrating for players to come back the next day with a short stack and bust before the money after spending money on another night at a hotel. If this means looking at start times for day 1 so that those left at the end of it are in the money then I believe this would work better.  Maybe add two start days and playing down to a number that is guaranteed a cash. This could also allow bigger fields aswell, meeting the demands of the current APATer fanbase.

For example: 2 start days, 120 runners each. Play down to 20 each day. All in the money. Alternates contribute to the payout structure and then the money gets decent around top 15, obviously escalating to the top places. Something along those lines, for an early idea of what I'm getting at.


Great topics and debate so far and look forward to bouncing ideas of people to create a fantastic season 5. Season has been great and as ever much love to Des, Tighty, Leigh and the rest of the crew that do a fantastic job in providing the APAT experience. Big up to Betfair aswell certainly surpassed itself with what it has provided this year!
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PHIL_TC

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2010, 11:56:49 AM »

I think this was just desperate measures as you were beginning to look like Blatch at the time.


Im never wearing that white hoodie again :(


Taking in the opposition of abroad events so far from this thread with regards to cost and value for a 75pound tourney, is Vegas a realistic option?


Chris.. your saying that if you had the chance to go to Vegas and play in an APAT event this would be a bad thing?  :-\
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 11:59:52 AM by PHIL_TC »
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WarBwastardo

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2010, 12:07:06 PM »

Taking in the opposition of abroad events so far from this thread with regards to cost and value for a 75pound tourney, is Vegas a realistic option?


Well the Vegas event if there were to be one would be a proper holiday wouldn"t it, no one"s traveling to Vegas just for a £75 APAT game as they do for the Euro based events.  

PHIL_TC

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2010, 12:13:54 PM »


Taking in the opposition of abroad events so far from this thread with regards to cost and value for a 75pound tourney, is Vegas a realistic option?


Well the Vegas event if there were to be one would be a proper holiday wouldn"t it, no one"s traveling to Vegas just for a £75 APAT game as they do for the Euro based events. 


Exactly.. personally.. as I was going to Vegas next year anyway the chance to play in an APAT whilst over there would make the experience even more memorable... are shades banned over there yet?  8)
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Paulie_D

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2010, 13:01:54 PM »


S5 Venues:
Taking in the opposition of abroad events so far from this thread with regards to cost and value for a 75pound tourney, is Vegas a realistic option?



Who said it would be a £75 competition?....but I take your point.

I see no reason why the "added value" to some of the winners couldn"t be WSOP entries ($1500) or Venetian Deepstacks ($500) instead of the GUKPT seats we have now.

I"d love to sit down with Des, Richard and Leigh and find out what they have in mind...I know that Vegas has been in Des" mind since S1 and I"d love to see us out there mob-handed.

Frankly, even if it"s the usual "We"ll go anywhere" crew....I"d be up for it but let"s not forget that Ger Jr will be "of age" come November 2011....it could be mahoosive.

Oh...and I"m back.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 12:14:38 PM by Paulie_D »
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gomarrrahh

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2010, 13:50:20 PM »
Hey guys, im well up for an APAT event in Vegas. I never said at all that its a bad thing, i said is it realistic based on people views regarding the abroad events as it currently stands in the majority.

id love a Vegas event and i cant imagine anyone on this whole forum that wouldnt be interested in it happening but the points you have made are that of a Vegas trip/holiday with an APAT event on top and not a APAT event in Vegas and there is a difference.
As for the buyin paulie, yeh who sed it would be 75. but if its more to make the trip worthwhile in a financial sense then we arent doing an "APAT" event. we creating a bigger buyin tourney that goes away from the APAT ethos, jus to make it worthwhile.
If thats the case, then jus go to Vegas and play a $500, $1000 (or whatever buyin) event on at the Mirage, Bellagio etc as a holiday.

Im sure if there was an APAT event announced say in May next year in Vegas, we"d be all over it no question. What im getting at, is too make it worthwhile, everyone would need to book a couple weeks, with extra consideration to their time spent there as opposed to going for a tourney buyin that would be about 1% of the cost to get there. Therefore its a Vegas trip with an APAT event as a bonus, NOT an APAT Vegas event.
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nosey-p

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2010, 15:02:52 PM »
You have to consider the sponsors as well. Would Betfair like us going to USA when they cannot play on Betfair? I'm sure they would prefer us to play in a country where they are allowed to play online (If Betfair are to sponsor us next year)

AceOnTheRiver

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2010, 16:22:22 PM »

I think this was just desperate measures as you were beginning to look like Blatch at the time.


Totally Beat me to it.  ;D


I agree with shades though, it is really silly how big tours still allow them to be worn.  Maybe APAT should steal a march, be the leader not the follower and be the first major tour to ban them.  This will not only appeal to the majority but in my opinion it would be a massive "worldwide" marketing coup.


Agreed!

i-Pods & hoodies should be allowed.

On the Vegas thing IMHO it was just a silly suggestion originally with tongues firmly in cheeks.
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Delboy

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2010, 17:40:43 PM »





Bump up the buy in to £100. (Jon, you are such a nit ;D)

...


Have you noticed the drop off in demand this season?

If the buy in goes up to £100 I"d expect to see UK based national events not selling out


Or other people might be attracted to the bigger prize pool


My prediction - it won"t

Judgement call though


I read that as "judgmental" initially and was about to agree with you  ;D only joking.  I think the demand has been there, the events have all sold out haven"t they?  They just haven"t sold out as quickly, but that might be because of various problems with buying in through Betfair.  Previous seasons it was much easier to locate the buy-in page.   The World event was £100 and had two day 1s no?  So I think it"s worth extending the increase in buy-ins to all Nationals, it can always be re-assessed mid-season.

You"re a resourceful man Jon, you can recover this £25 by staying in hotels that charge by the hour instead of the whole night, they"re generally in the seedier parts of town, but one mans seedy is another mans frugality.




This


Delboy

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2010, 17:50:29 PM »


Bump up the buy in to £100. (Jon, you are such a nit ;D)



No thanks :(



Why? Surely the extra buy in and associated pay out would be +ev for a champion like yourself! ;D

Fatcatstu

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2010, 18:42:07 PM »



Bump up the buy in to £100. (Jon, you are such a nit ;D)



No thanks :(



Why? Surely the extra buy in and associated pay out would be +ev for a champion luckbox like yourself! ;D


Not when my luck is out as it is atm.

Still winning tho.
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WarBwastardo

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2010, 20:38:38 PM »

Hey guys, im well up for an APAT event in Vegas. I never said at all that its a bad thing, i said is it realistic based on people views regarding the abroad events as it currently stands in the majority.

id love a Vegas event and i cant imagine anyone on this whole forum that wouldnt be interested in it happening but the points you have made are that of a Vegas trip/holiday with an APAT event on top and not a APAT event in Vegas and there is a difference.
As for the buyin paulie, yeh who sed it would be 75. but if its more to make the trip worthwhile in a financial sense then we arent doing an "APAT" event. we creating a bigger buyin tourney that goes away from the APAT ethos, jus to make it worthwhile.
If thats the case, then jus go to Vegas and play a $500, $1000 (or whatever buyin) event on at the Mirage, Bellagio etc as a holiday.

Im sure if there was an APAT event announced say in May next year in Vegas, we"d be all over it no question. What im getting at, is too make it worthwhile, everyone would need to book a couple weeks, with extra consideration to their time spent there as opposed to going for a tourney buyin that would be about 1% of the cost to get there. Therefore its a Vegas trip with an APAT event as a bonus, NOT an APAT Vegas event.


It would still be an APAT event, the idea would be to attract "local" players to make up the majority of the field of runners same as with the Euro events and spread the word of APAT across Merca, just like Joseph Smith only without the bigamy.  If some of the UK based players can make it over there too, all well and good.

The point about Betfair not being accessible to US punters probably makes this idea a non-starter though.

Claw75

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2010, 21:07:22 PM »
please don"t increase the buy in!  APATs aren"t about big buyins/prizepools.  If anything I"d be in favour of dropping it to £50 to widen the potential pool of players, but £75 has worked in the past and can"t see the need to change it, particularly when times are tight for a lot of people.

Waz1892

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2010, 21:48:18 PM »

please don"t increase the buy in!  APATs aren"t about big buyins/prizepools.  If anything I"d be in favour of dropping it to £50 to widen the potential pool of players, but £75 has worked in the past and can"t see the need to change it, particularly when times are tight for a lot of people.


+1.  Plenty of big buy ins for those that want them in other tours.

Keep the APAT 75!
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Delboy

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Re: S5 - APAT Season 5 - Discussion
« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2010, 22:17:13 PM »


please don"t increase the buy in!  APATs aren"t about big buyins/prizepools.  If anything I"d be in favour of dropping it to £50 to widen the potential pool of players, but £75 has worked in the past and can"t see the need to change it, particularly when times are tight for a lot of people.


+1.  Plenty of big buy ins for those that want them in other tours.

Keep the APAT 75!



But £100 ers in other tours are not APATs and I want to play the APATs and its more economic to do so with a £100 buy in. Let me illustrate:


Assuming 200 Players...

Current prize for 1st (23%)    £3500

Buy in                    £75
Life Rake (beer, Hotel etc)   £150
Total Cost                £225

Therefore 1 bink gives you 15.5 National Tournaments

£100 buy in

1st Prize      £4600   

Buy in      £100
Life Rake                £150
Total Cost   £250

Therefore 1 bink give you 18.4 National Tournaments

So.. Its more economical to have a higher buy in