APAT Season 5: Discussion

[Delboy]

The Nationals always sell out. They have always sold out. There is always an Alternate list. People keep coming back,

It ain"t broke - why do so many people want to fix it?

good point, well made.

When demand far exceeds supply you have a broken buisness model, no?

[Fatcatstu]

JP, do you not agree that some areas have larger catchment areas than others?

Phil tell alot of people that he sees to come play for us, just because stockton has a relatively small catchment area doesnt make him any less of a captain, he is VERY active (urg i hate giving that man credit!!!)

[RioRodent]

The Nationals always sell out. They have always sold out. There is always an Alternate list. People keep coming back,

It ain"t broke - why do so many people want to fix it?

You"re right, right from S1 Event1... However, that didn"t stop us introducing a 150/300 level... or introducing antes... or allowing late reg and alternates... or allowing a deal to be made in Austria last year... or using a more conventional payout structure in Tallinn... or aggregating alternates entries into a bigger prize.

There have been many changes over the last 4 years, it just might be that it is those changes that have ensured people keep coming back.

I"m afraid the "if it ain"t broke, why fix it?" attitude is the kind of thinking that has seen many businesses stagnate and ultimately fail.

Evolution, it"s the way of the world!

[AceOnTheRiver]

JP, do you not agree that some areas have larger catchment areas than others?

Phil tell alot of people that he sees to come play for us, just because stockton has a relatively small catchment area doesnt make him any less of a captain, he is VERY active (urg i hate giving that man credit!!!)

Yes, of course but that"s not the only factor. From our perspective, you only have to sneeze in a Southernly direction and your competing with North London for players (although why anyone would want to join the 2 Donnies, I don"t know  ). Having said that we are fortunate to have no other clubs to the east of us so we have a few Norfolk players.

The point is that recruiting is part and parcel of being a good team and the benefits of good recruitment should not be negated entirely. (As I said in my OP it isn"t perfect and needs looking at but every score counting is a step too far IMO)

On the Subject of your skipper, I"m giving him a B+ "Good Work with the resources available but could do better"  

What Blatch Phil needs to do is actively promote the benefits of Stockton such as those below

Birthplace of "Journey South"
Chris Rea
Parmo
The Tees Transporter Bridge and its role in bringing back "Auf Wiedersehn Pet"
Geoff Winter
Ridley Scott"s Inspiration for the city of the future in "Blade Runner"

Simples!  

[AMRN]

The Nationals always sell out. They have always sold out. There is always an Alternate list. People keep coming back,

It ain"t broke - why do so many people want to fix it?

good point, well made.

When demand far exceeds supply you have a broken buisness model, no?

No.

Huge popularity doesn"t mean the business model is broke - just that the product is popular.  The 200 cap is a maximum - there is no room or potential to extend.

[TightEnd]

Purely hypothetically, how many of you who play the National Championships regularly would take a Friday off work to play a Day1a, with a Day1b on a Saturday?

I bet not too many. Bear in mind we"d need enough runners on a Friday to make it worthwhile, events would cost more to put on, staff expenses would be higher, day 1a players getting to day 2 would have a spare day in between.....

If you think we"d not get runners on a day1a then we"re restricted, DTD apart, by casino capacity for UK national venues.

[Fatcatstu]

What Blatch Phil needs to do is actively promote the benefits of Stockton such as those below

The European champion plays for them
Simples!  

I agree completely.

Lol at Blatch btw, top work.

[RioRodent]

Purely hypothetically, how many of you who play the National Championships regularly would take a Friday off work to play a Day1a, with a Day1b on a Saturday?

I bet not too many. Bear in mind we"d need enough runners on a Friday to make it worthwhile, events would cost more to put on, staff expenses would be higher, day 1a players getting to day 2 would have a spare day in between.....

If you think we"d not get runners on a day1a then we"re restricted, DTD apart, by casino capacity for UK national venues.

Judging by the [slower] speed at which seats have sold this season, I really don"t think the demand is there for 300+ seats. Like you, I very much doubt you would get enough people to play on a Friday "regularly".

I think that moving the Pro League to Sunday and freeing up those 50 seats would provide sufficient capacity, assuming venues that can handle 200 players.

[TightEnd]

I think the slower take up this season is due to

a) You needed to buy in via Betfair. This was less popular than a clickfest, or perhaps better said less simple (when the clickfest worked properly)

b) Economy related


As to the Pro League, options would be

a) Scrap it

b) Put it on the Friday night, and hope to attract local venue players too

c) Put it on the Sunday

d) Leave it as is

Options a)-c) free up 2-3 tables (currently) for Amateur seats, but just as big as issue is the buy in mechanism and player bankrolls (buy in, willingness to travel, incur expenses etc)

[RioRodent]

I think the slower take up this season is due to

a) You needed to buy in via Betfair. This was less popular than a clickfest, or perhaps better said less simple (when the clickfest worked properly)

b) Economy related

Agreed... assuming Betfair remain as sponsor and buy-in remains via their poker client then neither a) or b) are likely to change significantly for S5.

As to the Pro League, options would be

a) Scrap it

b) Put it on the Friday night, and hope to attract local venue players too

c) Put it on the Sunday

d) Leave it as is

Options a)-c) free up 2-3 tables (currently) for Amateur seats, but just as big as issue is the buy in mechanism and player bankrolls (buy in, willingness to travel, incur expenses etc)

IMHO, the only option that should be ruled out here is d).

If it is to continue then  I think c) is favourite, with, as has already been suggested, some form of satellites available on Saturday for any bustees who fancy their chances.

a) or b) are Ok also.  

[AMRN]

C >> A > B >>>>>>>> D

[Honeybadg]

I think the slower take up this season is due to

a) You needed to buy in via Betfair. This was less popular than a clickfest, or perhaps better said less simple (when the clickfest worked properly)

b) Economy related


As to the Pro League, options would be

a) Scrap it

b) Put it on the Friday night, and hope to attract local venue players too

c) Put it on the Sunday

d) Leave it as is

Options a)-c) free up 2-3 tables (currently) for Amateur seats, but just as big as issue is the buy in mechanism and player bankrolls (buy in, willingness to travel, incur expenses etc)

Friday night would be good ...

[Pears27]

+1 for Pro event on the Sunday, with a STT satellite or two late-ish (10pm?) on the Saturday, when there"s enough players and dealers freed up from day 1.

[kaysing]

The live events are stuctured just fine (except I appear to bubble too often).

My main comment regards the online team league.  I speak as a very lapsed Capain of the Plymouth team who faired well in the first season (mantra, Quality not quantity) but always struggled to get enough players to ensure a prize/promotion - so much for the mantra.  Soft play obviously came into the strategy (whatever the definition of soft play is).   Due to this and the fact that Plymouth always struggled to garner enough support to match other more populated teams I rapdily became disillusioned about the format of the online league.  That said, I would support a league of individuals.  This would erradicate geographical factors  and would reward the best players over a statistically significant period.   I know this goes against the ethos of promoting luvvie duvvie comaradarie, but whoever said poker was anything other than a game of individuals prevailing over the rest of the losers.  Hope this isnt too radical but I really do feel the online league, whilst in principle a good thing, does need a significant overhaul if it is to encourage new players from the outer reaches of the poker universe.

For interest, during 2010 I ran a league over 10 games (one per month) (average 7 - 8 runners) where the best 5 scores counted to the final placings. We deliberated long over how many games should count  towards the final results.  Too few and one risks the position of not encouraging support.  Too many and one risks alienating new joiners earlier in the season than would otherwise be the case.  In the end we paid the top three which bought them into a "local" (200 miles round trip) deep stack game.  To maintain interest after the completion of the league (and to encourage support) , anyone who had played at least 5 games got a piece of the prize winners winnings in the deep stack tourney.  Maybe if APAT did something similar we would get  someone  into a winning position in a major live tournament whilst not relying on geographical location and at the same time allow others to benefit from their success, thus promoting the "team/community" ethos and loyalty to the brand. Just some thoughts, interested to hear how others feel.

All the best,

Apologies for spelling and grammer mistakes but I am the other side of some whisky macs and my team went down to the Brummies today.


In spite of what I have said above, live games are the bedrock of APAT and we should never forget that.  Tweaks to online formats are secondary to that.

Dave

[fraac]

Online league: could have A, B, C, etc teams of fixed size; players picked based on appearances or something.