Author Topic: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?  (Read 7663 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« on: January 31, 2011, 08:41:33 AM »
A hand from the late stages of the APAT UK Team Champs that I understand was the cause of some debate on the Live Feed. I gather that my call was deemed to be bad, but at the time it felt right, and on reflection it still feels right. Thought I would post it here for review/comment.

Scenario is that we are at least two tables, and my team"s chances of a medal are gone, so I"m now playing for first and first only. I have 120k, with blinds at 3k/6k/a800.  I"ve not played a hand for at least two orbits on our 7 handed table, when this happens.

Folds to me in the CO, and I open for 16k with 22. Btn has 60k, SB has massive stack, and BB has short stack. I fold if btn or SB play back at me, not sure what to do if BB plays back. At this point, the raise is purely a position steal to try and keep some stack momentum.

Btn and SB folded, BB shoved.

Initial instinct is to fold, but ask for a count anyway. BB"s stack is 39k. So, the pot is 5.6k antes, 3k SB, 16k my bet, and 39k BB shove = 63.6k, and I need to call 23k more.

If I call and lose, I have 80k behind - around 13 bigs. I asked the BB how he felt about his hand, and from the response, I got a fairly solid read that I was against overcards rather than overpair.

So, going with my read, I"m in a 50/50 race with pot odds of nearly 3:1. To me that"s a call every time. If I"m unsure about my read, I may find a fold given that BB"s range could include all the overpairs..... however I was pretty sure about the read.

So - question is... make the mathematically correct call based on instinctual read about oppo"s range, or fold to preserve chips and tournament equity at this late stage and wait for a better spot?

call or fold?

« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 14:14:50 PM by AMRN »

MAIR

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 10:01:58 AM »
CALL, 23k more to call after a 16k raise with a pp, no matter what they are, standard imo. Good call
Mary Kivlin

Mikeyboy9361

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2281
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 10:41:56 AM »
Calling all day after the initial raise, I can understand anyone with AK, AQ, or AJ being aggrieved if they lose, but you have a pair, and at that stage prepared to race, fair enough in my book.
European Online Silver Medalist 2009
Member of the Leeds "Grand Final" Team
Scottish Amateur Championships Bronze Medalist 2013

PantsMan

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 640
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 11:28:03 AM »
Call, 23k more into a pot that size. Chances are you're racing but you're easily getting the odds to do so. What was the issue people had who were saying it was bad?

MintTrav

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4265
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 11:45:02 AM »
You"re having a laugh Steve.
5th place - Portsmouth Snooker Club £10 rebuy

Liz Lieu borrowed my pen - 01/06/2013

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 11:57:47 AM »

MintTrav

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4265
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 12:08:06 PM »


You"re having a laugh Steve.


???


To clarify, I ain"t folding now in a month of Sundays.

The only criticism would be not deciding this before making the bet -
Quote

not sure what to do if BB plays back.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 17:00:16 PM by MintTrav »
5th place - Portsmouth Snooker Club £10 rebuy

Liz Lieu borrowed my pen - 01/06/2013

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 13:40:47 PM »
You should know the answer before you open. Raise/folding < 7bb with anything would be beyond terrible and should reportable as collusion IMO. Stack management ftw with 20 bigs
Looking forward to making my first day 2

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2011, 13:51:11 PM »
Just to add you shouldn"t fold v the 10bb stack either
Looking forward to making my first day 2

Foggy

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 619
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 16:23:14 PM »
Definately call, you have the odds, your basically committed, you are a luckbox

Everything is in your favour

ian.ski309

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 16:44:07 PM »
The dynamics of this hand were possibly more complex than you"ve presented them Steve. For a start I"m assuming (rightly or wrongly), that you know your opponent"s game pretty well by now. Secondly, you asked him, "Have you got me out-kicked ?" to which he answered, "Call me and find out." Judging by all the stares/glares across the table I sensed that there was maybe some history between you.

On a "purely poker" basis, it"s a call every time.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 18:59:57 PM by ian.ski309 »
APAT European Team Championships 2009 - Gold Medal


"The gambling known as business looks with austere disfavor upon the business known as gambling." - Ambrose Pierce

mousebob

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 23:34:31 PM »
No problem with the call here.
As an aside I"m either shoving or folding pre !
The harder I work,
The luckier I get.

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 23:56:54 PM »
calling almost any two here and we"re debating when we have a pair?
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 07:47:31 AM »

No problem with the call here.
As an aside I"m either shoving or folding pre !


with 20 bigs, and a huge stack in the SB?

samuel_9

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 09:54:37 AM »
imo you played it perfect ........... did u win the hand