New structure thoughts

[Paulie_D]

[WarBwastardo]

Has there ever been a time when making day 2 meant you had cashed?  I don"t get the argument about stumping up for hotels.  You make those decisions weeks in advance of the event no?  

Who cares about the money anyway, it"s the social side of things that matters so the more people still around for day 2 the better surely.  

Regarding the first part I get what you mean but I don"t agree If I didn"t make day 2 in Coventry I was not going to stay in a hotel.

Think we"re talking at cross purposes.  I thought you were saying your hotel plans for the second night were dependent on you cashing. 

[RioRodent]

At 2.32pm -

Paul Davis shoves his 35k stack.  Chipleader Michael Richards makes the call.

Paul QJ, Michael AK.

The AK is good, and Paulie D exits in 20th place.

At 2.34pm -

David Griffiths [Morgan? 30k"ish] shoves with KJ and gets a caller in Mike Wilson with pocket fives.

The fives are good, and David exits in 19th

At 2.37pm -

John Miller [28k"ish] shoves with 9 6, Tod Wood calls with A5.

Board of A 2 4  A  T

And John Miller exits in 18th

At 2.39pm -

Daniel Weaver [16k"ish] is allin against Paul Williams and in good shape.

A9 v K9

But a king on the flop, means Daniel exits in 17th place.

I don"t wish to be critical of anyone"s play... but, if any of these first four out, withinh the first 10mins, on Sunday afternoon, were really bothered about returning for day 2 and not getting paid... then surely they could have found equally as good spots as these to get there chips in during the last level of day 1??

Why nurse a stack, with an M of 5 or less, into day 2 just to push it in in the first couple of hands?

This would seem to prove to me that making day 2 of a 2-day touranment was more important than actually getting into the money.

[Paulie_D]

[RioRodent]

At 2.32pm -

Paul Davis shoves his 35k stack.  Chipleader Michael Richards makes the call.

Paul QJ, Michael AK.

The AK is good, and Paulie D exits in 20th place.

I don"t wish to be critical of anyone"s play... but, if any of these first four out, withinh the first 10mins, on Sunday afternoon, were really bothered about returning for day 2 and not getting paid... then surely they could have found equally as good spots as these to get there chips in during the last level of day 1??

Why nurse a stack, with an M of 5 or less, into day 2 just to push it in in the first couple of hands?

This would seem to prove to me that making day 2 of a 2-day touranment was more important than actually getting into the money.

I wasn"t and never am bothered about coming back on Day 2 and not cashing...been there done that more than once.

Could I have found a spot to shove with 63o at the final level...sure, but we were playing short handed for a while and two went out right at the end as I recall. I didn"t find a hand I felt comfortable with shoving with in the last level although I made a few raises that weren"t called.

So basically Alan is right...making Day 2 was more important than cashing but you had to make Day 2 to cash...on this occasion.

You are the only one of those 4 that I actually know, and obviously I knew that you were staying anyway... as I said the point was not critique play, purely to highlight that none of those 4 appear to be too bothered about returning for potentially zero cash.

[Swinebag]

I think aiming to play day 1 up to the money is a good thing but it shouldn"t be the most important consideration.

If it happens that you are unable to get to the money spots at the end of day 1, then that"s just too bad. It was never a problem in the first 4 seasons.

[scouse3465]

you should never just play up until the money , it should be whenever is best for the structure of the tournament, whenever the money bubble is should be irrelavant in my opinion.
If you come to apat event you should stay that night and enjoy social aspects of an apat event, if you make day 2 bonus!

[AMRN]

you should never just play up until the money , it should be whenever is best for the structure of the tournament, whenever the money bubble is should be irrelavant in my opinion.
If you come to apat event you should stay that night and enjoy social aspects of an apat event, if you make day 2 bonus!

Bit of a catch-all statement Steve...  not everyone can afford to stay over, and would choose to drive home....  coming back for day two is additional expense, offset by getting paid.

[Delboy]

you should never just play up until the money , it should be whenever is best for the structure of the tournament, whenever the money bubble is should be irrelavant in my opinion.
If you come to apat event you should stay that night and enjoy social aspects of an apat event, if you make day 2 bonus!

Bit of a catch-all statement Steve...  not everyone can afford to stay over, and would choose to drive home....  coming back for day two is additional expense, offset by getting paid.

Do people really leave the decision to stay in a hotel till they know if they are through to day 2?

[Jon MW]

It"s pretty horrendous bankroll management if people are relying on cashing to pay for the hotel to stay in for day 2.

I suspect it"s a lot more likely that nearly all, if not all, of the people who decide whether or not to stay do so based on whether they fancy socialising or prefer to just go home - i.e. it"s just personal preference.

It"s a good aim to get everybody to the money on day 1, but as a group people are going to tighten up as day 2 approaches - the only way to guarantee that everybody made the money is to have open ended finish times (which isn"t possible), or to fiddle with the structure so much that it gets ruined.

It"ll be interesting to see how it plays with more runners and without the clocks going forward, but every indication is that this is the best APAT structure so far

[AMRN]

It"s pretty horrendous bankroll management if people are relying on cashing to pay for the hotel to stay in for day 2.

Don"t think I said that. If the casino is in driving distance - say less than 80 miles - there are occasions where I will opt to drive home rather than incur hotel and all associated expense.  There are others that do the same..... driving back for day two is nice when you collect some payout to pay for the petrol.

That said, I love staying over on these weekends, and of course will be doing so for Newcastle..... but generally, with huge family expense, poker is a hobby and I need to keep costs down where I can. Sure I"m not the only one.

Kind of getting away from the topic of the thread though.... haven"t played it yet, but the new structure looks bang on.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Sleeping bag in the boot! Back seat FTW !! Or not as is usually the case!!

[Honeybadg]

With regards to this tournament was there more scope to play on day 1 in terms of dealers etc ...

4 out in first 9 mins of day 2 seems crazy to me.

By observation the structure works well in terms of plenty of play at the final table.

My take would be establish the latest you can play to and then play to that or play to the money - this might have been the case in Coventry.

If the structure implies playing to the money or being absurdly shortly then there will be a more natural (attacking) game towards the end of day 1.

If there were just a few players no getting paid on day 2 - I would give them a £75 prize to cover petrol/hotel/drink.

L

[Jon MW]

It"s pretty horrendous bankroll management if people are relying on cashing to pay for the hotel to stay in for day 2.

Don"t think I said that. ..

My definition of "... can"t afford..." is to not have the money to, obviously if you want to have some new fangled definition involving whether it"s sensible to or not that"s up to you  

[Jon MW]

With regards to this tournament was there more scope to play on day 1 in terms of dealers etc ...

4 out in first 9 mins of day 2 seems crazy to me.

...

If you had an extra 9 minutes on day 1 you wouldn"t have had 4 out even if they"d been dealt exactly the same cards, you might have got 4 out with an extra level but I doubt much more.