Bluffing with Ace King

[mporter123]

[AMRN]

With such a big draw, I too would take the small ball line on the flop. When he leads the turn, it becomes player dependant to some degree - is he bluffing, or betting to inflate the pot for value....  if you raise here, you may make him fold a better hand which is always nice, but then you won"t get the added value of a river bet should you monster draw get there. You also re-open the betting to allow him to shove, and i don"t think you"re ever calling a shove in this spot..... so imo flatting flop and turn in position is fine.

when he checks the river, I agree with your view that you rarely have the best hand here and can"t win with a check behind, so a bet to steal is fine. The call/call/bet line doesn"t look particularly strong, and most thinking players (and all fish) will call your river bet with marginal hands assuming the river didn"t improve the draws.

EDIT: If the suits in your hand were the other way round, I be doing all that I could to get the lot in on the flop.

[LongshanksED]

What bet can you make at a bluff? Villian has looked Strong throughout and will probably call most bets you make. Even a shove I think will be looked up, kinda hoping he has the same hand but with the ace of diamonds and missed also

Think I"m spewy checking behind and having a look to see what he called you with pre as you look beat to almost anything

[thinsy147]

I would have done exactly the same on the flop and turn. His check on the river as I see it is really saying only one thing:

"I"ve tried to get you off it twice but you won"t go"

If he had a decent hand wouldn"t he make some sort of bet on the river? Even a small one to get paid off! But, being early on in the game I would have probably checked behind on the river! If he was trying it on with a missed  ad draw you still have possibilities of winning the pot. If he has the better hand you"ve learned something and still have chips to build from.

Later on in the tournament the hand may well play out completely different before a flop even came!!

[I Q8Holds I]

Agree with post above dont think bluffing river will work as i think hes check calling a 10/low flush check behind and hope he has a lame Adx

[mporter123]

Irritatingly, this hand is still continue to bug me today.

Is it not better to take the aggressive route and raise the flop in this spot? If I get re-raised then I can hate it and fold without too much trouble. If I get called then there is a good chance I get checked to and can take a free card to make my draw. I agree that if the suits were the other way round then would be more than happy to stack off in this spot.

Once I just call the flop, I think raising the turn when the 8 comes down probably has more chance of getting through than my bluff on the river. At least if I raise this turn I am genuinely repping hitting something (a straight). If I do get re-shoved on I can fold. If I get called then I can shut down.

I can see why my river bet is going to be called by most good players. If I work it through, I cant ever have a made flush in this spot as I would have raised the flop/turn almost every time (even with the nut flush). I can't have a straight or I would have definitely raised the turn with all the danger cards that would kill me on the river. A full house looks unlikely as I would have played a set more aggressively. All I can have in this spot is 2 pair/ bluff hands and with most two pairs I would be checking.

The most annoying thing is I made almost an identical move in the SCOOP earlier with AK and a river bluff that didn't work.

[deanp27]

Fold the turn

[Swinebag]

the call/call/bluff line is good because it gives the impression that you are letting the villain hang himself, but no way is Paul the fish folding the river so I would fold turn with your line.


My prefered line is to raise the flop. The reason for this is that you have position and a great chance to get a free card on the turn to complete your draw. If Villain calls the flop raise, he will probably check to you on the turn.

If you get 3bet on the flop then you can fold

[noble1]

the call/call/bluff line is good because it gives the impression that you are letting the villain hang himself

not sure with this texture flop that we are repping much that fits Rob?

villain meh limp with SC"s, suited rag ace diamond, broadways for 2pair or a str8 on the turn, met be a set, not much air after turn bet, villains checks to induce river...

[LongshanksED]

Villian has J8 diamonds (lol)
But even KJ has flopped the straight

turn card bring all kinds of straights out also if he had AJ (possibly A diamonds)

After re reading I agree with my earlier post of letting it go now but you were right to call flop and turn IMO

[mporter123]

For those interested, villain dwelled and called with  ad .

A very good call but not one that I am sure I could make. On reflection, I don"t hate the way I played this but could make an arguement for raising the flop or turn and wouldn"t be awful. This is the sort of hand where a read would have been more useful ie. Paul the fish

[WYoung83]

Havent bothered to read other replys, but when you flat on flop, your range seems to be polarized to either a made flush or exactly what you have, I would raise flop and play for stacks, but as played i would just call the turn.

Horrible bet on river, looks like you have busted draw now, Because made hands such as straights, sets and 2 pairs would raise flop. u need to go for showdown because villain is checking to induce a bluff from the exact hand u have. you dont need to win every pot BTW, and when the board pairs it is the hardest card to bluff at in this situation because it unlikly improves you hand, and if villain belives he may be winning on turn, its easy for him to call now.

[Swinebag]

Don"t mind Paul"s call there one bit. There are so many hands that you could have that have showdown value which would check back on river, that a bet on the river polarises your range massively making a call mandatory.

the call/call/bluff line is good because it gives the impression that you are letting the villain hang himself

not sure with this texture flop that we are repping much that fits Rob?

I agree. As I also said, would not have taken this line myself. Should have said because of the board

[WYoung83]

 If i was paul i would call, this is a fairly easy call (Well not easy), but you have to know that with the way the hand was played, its hard to represent value when you havent raised the flop or turn. It just looks like u have  kd, and we now know he had the  ad so his check on the river (to induce a bluff) was a good play.

[mal666]

Particularly keen to know Cyntaf's thoughts as he was the villain in this story.

Me too, both mashed it imo.