Author Topic: Dan Owsten put me in a tricky spot early in APAT Cardiff. Thoughts on this?  (Read 12252 times)

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WYoung83

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 And it has only been 2 orbits, so you cant say that the SB has been tight when he has only been delt 10 hands. You also say that people are not going to be re-stealing light early on. This is BS because its early on when you need to firure who will fold to 3 bets etc, so you can pick on these people during the middle stadges.

Good agressive players will play agressive from the start (even more so if they know that there table will be one of the first to break) if they get it wrong or make a mistake, it may only cost them 20% of stack as opposed to 100% on a later level.

scouse3465

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I would prob have 4 bet pre flop (or maybe fold, never flat) against Dan or player like dan. And if 5 bet then would have tanked and tried to get read and go with gut whether to jam or fold.
And if decide to check call on flop you bleeding chips , an aggro player is likely not to fire again.
I discussed this with Dan and said that is what i would do before he told me his hand which i wont say on here but sure if he wants you to know he will post. But to be fair it is irrelavant because next time sure it would be different hands.
Anyway tough decision, which we all love in poker , well the sickos do.
Great when you get em right but horrible when wrong.
I still get **** for folding QQ pre to dave rudders before i knew who he was lol .

Sillbags

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the Sb was quite tight and hadn"t seen him 3bet once, He may only be 3betting JJ+ +AK +AQ  [maybe not aq and jj].


It was Steve Redfern in the SB, 3 betting Dan"s button raise. I"d say both of there ranges include a lot lower hands than "JJ+ +AK +AQ". Although the original poster may not know them!


The guy to Dan"s left was SB, I was BB

AMRN

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the Sb was quite tight and hadn"t seen him 3bet once, He may only be 3betting JJ+ +AK +AQ  [maybe not aq and jj].


It was Steve Redfern in the SB, 3 betting Dan"s button raise. I"d say both of there ranges include a lot lower hands than "JJ+ +AK +AQ". Although the original poster may not know them!


It wasn"t me on this occasion, although I do seem to remember a few 3-bets from the blinds in both directions between myself and Dan. Was fun.

In the hand in question, I hate the call out of position. Furthermore, once you have called, check/folding on a 9 hi board is just weak. When you called, what sort of flop were you hoping for (other than JJx obviously)?  With the 3 and 4 bets, I"m not sure that you were really getting the right odds to call and set-mine... and you had to know that Dan would be c-betting 100%. You check/call the flop c-bet, and I guess at this point you"re hoping for a cheap showdown - hence giving up when he c-bets the turn..... In this spot, oop with a medium strength hand, against an aggro player, you"re preflop action determines the entire course of the hand - your preflop flat call was weak, and you ending up losing a lump of chips unnecessarily. Shove or fold pre (fold>>>shove in this particular situation imo)

If I was in that spot, I may be tempted to play back at Dan"s aggro image and shove pre..... however I would then be thinking that he knows he has that image, and could be setting up to call a shove here. but then I might think that he thinks that I think he is playing his aggro image...... oh feck it, just fold pre..... there are much better spots than this to get involved, and with 200x there"s plenty of time.

smileriraq

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the guy to dans left was Moi and yes that day I did play fairly tight  (tho did chuck in a few uncalled bluffs) especially on the first 3-4 levels . It was my first APAT tournament and was trying to get a feel for the table which from the info I got from Mr Shallis and Roderick was a fairly tough table.

I had a fairly good grasp on  Dans style of play as well as the guy in the pink shirt but was just trying to play patient and use my tight image to steal a few pots every now and then.

BTW if i recall correctly I had AQ suited on the had in question and the flop missed the suits , but do recall thinking that against one player I may still be ahead but with a potential of 2 people I really lhad to think at least one of them had a PP or AK/AQ or AJ
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 21:35:24 PM by smileriraq »

PantsMan

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the Sb was quite tight and hadn"t seen him 3bet once, He may only be 3betting JJ+ +AK +AQ  [maybe not aq and jj].


It was Steve Redfern in the SB, 3 betting Dan"s button raise. I"d say both of there ranges include a lot lower hands than "JJ+ +AK +AQ". Although the original poster may not know them!


It wasn"t me on this occasion, although I do seem to remember a few 3-bets from the blinds in both directions between myself and Dan. Was fun.


Ahh, it"s when you said "it was me in the SB that 3-bet" i got confused!

Foggy

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and could be setting up to call a shove here. but then I might think that he thinks that I think he is playing his aggro image......

Yes, but what were you ..................thinking

AMRN

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and could be setting up to call a shove here. but then I might think that he thinks that I think he is playing his aggro image......

Yes, but what were you ..................thinking


That"s over-rated Foggy :)

undisputed

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I can count to Potatoe




the Sb was quite tight and hadn"t seen him 3bet once, He may only be 3betting JJ+ +AK +AQ  [maybe not aq and jj].


It was Steve Redfern in the SB, 3 betting Dan"s button raise. I"d say both of there ranges include a lot lower hands than "JJ+ +AK +AQ". Although the original poster may not know them!


It wasn"t me on this occasion, although I do seem to remember a few 3-bets from the blinds in both directions between myself and Dan. Was fun.

In the hand in question, I hate the call out of position. Furthermore, once you have called, check/folding on a 9 hi board is just weak. When you called, what sort of flop were you hoping for (other than JJx obviously)?  With the 3 and 4 bets, I"m not sure that you were really getting the right odds to call and set-mine... and you had to know that Dan would be c-betting 100%. You check/call the flop c-bet, and I guess at this point you"re hoping for a cheap showdown - hence giving up when he c-bets the turn..... In this spot, oop with a medium strength hand, against an aggro player, you"re preflop action determines the entire course of the hand - your preflop flat call was weak, and you ending up losing a lump of chips unnecessarily. Shove or fold pre (fold>>>shove in this particular situation imo)

If I was in that spot, I may be tempted to play back at Dan"s aggro image and shove pre..... however I would then be thinking that he knows he has that image, and could be setting up to call a shove here. but then I might think that he thinks that I think he is playing his aggro image...... oh feck it, just fold pre..... there are much better spots than this to get involved, and with 200x there"s plenty of time.


undisputed

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PS. JJ here vs me is as good as being dealt Quads Pre. That is all.

PantsMan

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PS. JJ here vs me is as good as being dealt Quads Pre. That is all.


LOL. Best reply ever. Cheers Dan. Made my day.  ;D

So, was it 6-3 off, or were they suited?

I Q8Holds I

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I still get **** for folding QQ pre to dave rudders before i knew who he was lol .



It"s alright i folded  kd qd on a
kh 5s :2d: td 9d

i bet 1/3rd on turn
1/2 on river and got re raised by a compitent but rocky player only to be shown  ad qh  forgot to think about starting hands im only losing to  ad1 jd but still might of found a fold,people almost fell out of there chairs when i showed my hand rofl

I Q8Holds I

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sorry for hijack hehe ;) pretty sure dan was ahead of jj no matter what he says and its still hard spot as played

AMRN

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sorry for hijack hehe ;) pretty sure dan was ahead of jj no matter what he says and its still hard spot as played


Having seen some of the significant laydowns Dan made that day, I"m 100% positive he was ahead of JJ in this spot

scouse3465

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sorry for hijack hehe ;) pretty sure dan was ahead of jj no matter what he says and its still hard spot as played


Having seen some of the significant laydowns Dan made that day, I"m 100% positive he was ahead of JJ in this spot


I will take that bet !