Ukipt Hand

[I Q8Holds I]

Okay This is a hand from 25/50 ukipt.

I am sat between probarly the 2 best players ive ever played against Chris downling and George2Loose[Knewly crowned 4BetGeorge]

The rest of the table are retards peeling like theyre sunburnt and playing awful

Chris dowling hasn"t been super aggresive but has won like every hand hes played [played them in an aggresive way]

He raises utg+1 to 150 I Flat with  jh js Then it gets intresting 4 other people flat call behind me .

Flop  :

Chris leads out for 850



Chris has like 15k
I have 25k
Mongos behind us have 15k ish aswell

[jbworldwide]

Why did you flat, with so many "mongos" (made me lol) left to act behind?

Now you have no idea where you are and tbh to save myself grief and hard decisions on later streets, I would now fold, because if you flat here a mongo is coming too, someone will have a straight draw or have caught, and if you raise to 2k-ish and get repopped you are folding.

If you raise to 450 and get some callers you still thin the field a bit and if you get re-raised by the original raiser you find out where abouts you are pretty quickly.

Probably a bit controversial because you might have the best hand, but at the end of it you might only have 10k left, just because you didn"t raise pre.

[Paulie_D]

Why did you flat, with so many "mongos" (made me lol) left to act behind?

Now you have no idea where you are and tbh to save myself grief and hard decisions on later streets, I would now fold, because if you flat here a mongo is coming too, someone will have a straight draw or have caught, and if you raise to 2k-ish and get repopped you are folding.

If you raise to 450 and get some callers you still thin the field a bit and if you get re-raised by the original raiser you find out where abouts you are pretty quickly.

Probably a bit controversial because you might have the best hand, but at the end of it you might only have 10k left, just because you didn"t raise pre.

Damn  he"s quick....but DITTO.

[I Q8Holds I]

I dont really like 3betting an early postion raise with jj so deep. I dont even mind calling have all the dribblers call behind and almost set mine with it

--And yeh i agree 100% with  what you just said [minus the 3bet ]

[I Q8Holds I]

I folded when i told chris what i had he almost fell off his chair rofl. He told me later he had 66[trips]

[Swinebag]

Whilst peeling with JJ is fair enough this early in the donkament, it goes against everything you said in your initial read. Surely by peeling you have started a peel fest meaning you need to hit a specific flop to continue with this hand. This is as good a flop as you could expect without flopping a set. However, if your read is correct, it is unlikely CD is c betting light here, unless I"m missing something.

Given the reads, I 3 bet pre.

As played I would normally flat but with 4 to act, I raise flop / fold to reraise / kick myself for spewing.

PS - pretty sure "retard" and "mongo" are very inappropriate and disrespectful labels for fellow players.

could you give us more than 20 minutes next time before posting the result.

[jbworldwide]

He was just gutted that he didn"t get your chips... good fold

Just going to run a hand I won earlier, which hopefully shows the benefits of a raise.....

Hero   4605
Villian  3540

blinds 20/40

I have the button with   kd

Cut off raises to 120
I re-raise to 280
Villian calls and so does cut off

Pot is 880

Flop  ks jh

Villian checks, cut off checks and I bet 400

SB insta min raises me to 800

Now I am pretty sure what hand he has KK, KJ, JJ, 88 or AA

Given that he raises KK or AA pre, I can discount them. Anyway I make the call to re-evaluate on the turn.

Pot is now 2480

Turn is now a  ::

This obviously keeps me interested and sb bets 800.

This bet suggests he is pretty big so i put him on 88 or JJ now.

So I call this bet with the flush draw in tow, knowing full well that I will fold to any paired board or I miss my draw. The pot is pretty big as well and I am sure I can stack the villian if it hits.

Pot is now 4080

River is a bingo  

Villain bets 1320

I put him all in and he has to call.

10k pot.

Raising works kids  

Villain is not a real villain btw

[I Q8Holds I]

Sorry will post results later in other threads and i wasnt expecting so many caller maybe 1 or 2. raising pre would lose the value of the hand a bit i think and make a big pot/hard decisions early on which i didnt want

[I Q8Holds I]

I find online diffrent to Live +Stack sizes/strucutre of tournament. But yeh i dont think it particularly right or wrong to 3bet either of those hands...

[jbworldwide]

Sorry will post results later in other threads and i wasnt expecting so many caller maybe 1 or 2. raising pre would lose the value of the hand a bit i think and make a big pot/hard decisions early on which i didnt want

Not true, you are maximising the value of your hand and finding out where your hand is. I think this is more important early on in a tournament as you can pick up some chips off the spewy players with stronger holdings (allowing for variance of course).

Your decisions will be easier in the long run as you learn about your opponent and put people to the test.

However for this particular hand, I think Chris destroyed his hand value by betting so much (perhaps), and it worked out well for you as you can find that fold button.

[TheSnapper]

Four replies thus far and all in agreement on 3 betting pre. Can you guys take a stab at villains raising range utg+1 and give some solid reasons for 3 betting?

you are maximising the value of your hand

Dont agree at all with this statement, JJ has a lot less value versus his 3b calling range.

you are finding out where your hand is.

Your decisions will be easier in the long run as you learn about your opponent and put people to the test.

This is true, by 3 betting the hand is easier to play ( should that be a priority factor in our decision?), we also allow villain to play perfectly against us.

However for this particular hand, I think Chris destroyed his hand value by betting so much (perhaps), and it worked out well for you as you can find that fold button.

His flop lead into 5 players is super strong alright but I dont think its unreasonable for him to think there is value in betting his hand strongly.

[I Q8Holds I]

Snapper I suck with writing my thoughts but everything you just said I 100% agree with especially with the 3bet pre we get more value by calling then him thinking he"s value betting on a 5 high board with 88 etc

[jbworldwide]

Four replies thus far and all in agreement on 3 betting pre. Can you guys take a stab at villains raising range utg+1 and give some solid reasons for 3 betting?

you are maximising the value of your hand

Dont agree at all with this statement, JJ has a lot less value versus his 3b calling range.

Maybe we don"t agree on what value is, I mean in terms of ability to win the maximum and lose the minimum, there is value in doing both.

[scouse3465]

1 factor i am not sure if been posted but how much had you been 3 betting dave and do you think the players on table where noticing. I am guessing the original raiser would have noticed but other mongos ?
If you was 3 betting a lot the original raiser could easily call or 4 bet you light .
And in this instance can you 5 bet your jacks  ? I do like the flat with jacks and set mine with them, if you do 3 bet and are faced with a call whatever the flop is will be tough and u have to c bet. If its low flop as it is u entitled to think you ahead and c bet will prob win you it but they could easily have flopped set if show resistance.
As all situations so many variables but i slighty prefer the flat but 3 betting also ok.

[I Q8Holds I]

Not 3bet or raised once pre I don"t think had only really played the qq hand