Author Topic: Situations?  (Read 14391 times)

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deanp27

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 13:31:37 PM »
Probably a level from George.

I"d struggle to fold AQ vs a nit with 20 bigs so raise folding a hand this strong vs a maniac would be bad
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deanp27

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 13:34:54 PM »
Sit 2 is 20 bigs effective or less with dead money, easy 3b/call or jam
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Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 13:50:08 PM »

Sit 2 is 20 bigs effective or less with dead money, easy 3b/call or jam


Which option do you chose Dean?

1/ Call and see flop OOP?
2/ 3b fully commits short stack if they go in (high probability with pot size) and may get calling station pot stuck?
3/ Jam, hope to isolate short stack and risk possibly committing calling station?

What"s your thinking?

Cheers
Grant
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deanp27

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 14:22:53 PM »
Don"t call or fold. Best bet is probably a jam, a standard 3 bet will allow the coldcaller to flat your 3bet too often, especially if the shorty jams, which probably overcomplicates.
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Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2011, 14:35:39 PM »

Next situation............

Agaian, keen to know your thinking, FYI - Spicall has been caught in a couple of pots against preflop raisers so got short stacked, hazydays has been a bit of a calling station since i sat at table about half hour ago.

Seat 1: Mentalisti (9420)
Seat 2: lamelona (14525)
Seat 3: clubbersuk (2550)
Seat 4: spicaIII (1610)
Seat 5: hazydays01 (4220)
Seat 6: teruka23 (5380)
Seat 7: Santino1967 (9335)
Seat 8: TUZANJON (2500)
Seat 10: Endeavoor (3780)
teruka23 posts small blind (100)
Santino1967 posts big blind (200)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to Santino1967: [Qd, Ac]
TUZANJON folds
Endeavoor folds
Mentalisti folds
lamelona folds
clubbersuk folds
spicaIII raises 600 to 600
hazydays01 calls 600
teruka23 folds
Santino1967.....................? ? ?




Don"t call or fold. Best bet is probably a jam, a standard 3 bet will allow the coldcaller to flat your 3bet too often, especially if the shorty jams, which probably overcomplicates.


Cheers Dean

anyone else any opinions please?
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thestinger

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2011, 19:15:30 PM »
Same situation for me recently had   ad qd raised by me then he shoves, so do i.

he has  8c 9s . Thought chi ching then flop  8d 8s 9c, just to rub it in  tc  - jd. Game over - run it in my head so many times and always do the same!
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George2Loose

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 20:21:15 PM »



Probably a level from George.

I"d struggle to fold AQ vs a nit with 20 bigs so raise folding a hand this strong vs a maniac would be bad


Yeh sorry guys. Just me being a dousche. Think u know u played this correctly grant. Just one of those things. Fwiw tho aq is probably one of the biggest trap hands in hold em. I know from a lot of painful experience!
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Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 23:05:22 PM »




Probably a level from George.

I"d struggle to fold AQ vs a nit with 20 bigs so raise folding a hand this strong vs a maniac would be bad


Yeh sorry guys. Just me being a dousche. Think u know u played this correctly grant. Just one of those things. Fwiw tho aq is probably one of the biggest trap hands in hold em. I know from a lot of painful experience!


Cheers George, good luck in Dublin mate, sure you"ll have your A game with you  8)
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Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2011, 10:58:47 AM »

Next situation............

Agaian, keen to know your thinking, FYI - Spicall has been caught in a couple of pots against preflop raisers so got short stacked, hazydays has been a bit of a calling station since i sat at table about half hour ago.

Seat 1: Mentalisti (9420)
Seat 2: lamelona (14525)
Seat 3: clubbersuk (2550)
Seat 4: spicaIII (1610)
Seat 5: hazydays01 (4220)
Seat 6: teruka23 (5380)
Seat 7: Santino1967 (9335)
Seat 8: TUZANJON (2500)
Seat 10: Endeavoor (3780)
teruka23 posts small blind (100)
Santino1967 posts big blind (200)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to Santino1967: [Qd, Ac]
TUZANJON folds
Endeavoor folds
Mentalisti folds
lamelona folds
clubbersuk folds
spicaIII raises 600 to 600
hazydays01 calls 600
teruka23 folds
Santino1967.....................? ? ?



2nd spot result.........any opinions anyone, personally I believe it"s a really really bad call from hazydays but again keen to know your thoughts in same spot.

Santino1967 raises 9135 to 9335 [all in]
spicaIII calls 1010 [all in]
hazydays01 calls 3620 [all in]
--- Dealing flop [2s, 6h, 8h]
--- Dealing turn [Ts]
--- Dealing river [6d]
---
Summary:
Main pot: 4930 won by hazydays01 (4930)
Side pot 1: 5220 won by hazydays01 (5220)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 1: Mentalisti (9420)
Seat 2: lamelona (14525)
Seat 3: clubbersuk (2550)
Seat 4: spicaIII (0), net: -1610, [Jd, Ks] (PAIR SIX)
Seat 5: hazydays01 (10150), net: +5930, [Th, Ah] (TWO_PAIR TEN, SIX)
Seat 6: teruka23 (5280), net: -100
Seat 7: Santino1967 (5115), net: -4220, [Qd, Ac] (PAIR SIX)
Seat 8: TUZANJON (2500)
Seat 10: Endeavoor (3780)
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deanp27

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2011, 12:07:25 PM »
I wouldn"t worry too much what random muppets do. This really is a standard spot for you but you can"t win them all.

The biggest mistake you can make is using the result to justify folding or calling pre
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Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2011, 12:24:55 PM »

I wouldn"t worry too much what random muppets do. This really is a standard spot for you but you can"t win them all.

The biggest mistake you can make is using the result to justify folding or calling pre


Yeah Dean, only wondering if flatting pre would let me get away minimising my loss when I miss my AQ, especially when those 2 hearts hit flop>>>>Would anyone else consider the flat call pre OOP and re-assess on flop or has my play been pretty much standard?
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lucasj37

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2011, 16:04:27 PM »


I wouldn"t worry too much what random muppets do. This really is a standard spot for you but you can"t win them all.

The biggest mistake you can make is using the result to justify folding or calling pre


Yeah Dean, only wondering if flatting pre would let me get away minimising my loss when I miss my AQ, especially when those 2 hearts hit flop>>>>Would anyone else consider the flat call pre OOP and re-assess on flop or has my play been pretty much standard?


Dean is 100% correct. This is a standard shove everytime, for reasons he mentioned. Try not to be results orientated.

First situation was also a standard shove. 62% equity way too good to turn down.

MintTrav

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2011, 17:39:21 PM »
Sorry Grant, but I hate the way you played the first hand. We have an opponent who will definitely double us up when we are really strong and we want to put everything on a gamble against him? AQ is not a huge favourite preflop against ATC.


you are a 62/38 favourite if he calls and gets to showdown. I would never pass up this edge in this spot.

Never? I would, if I was pretty certain that he will get it in when I am 90%+ fav.

As played, yeah go ahead now that we are here but we shouldn"t have got into this situation. Against this player, who raises or reraises every hand preflop and is happy to get all-in with ATC, I am raising virtually no hand, certainly not AQ, as his reraise will mean we are playing for my stack. If we limp pre and call his raise, we will get to the flop for 250/300 and can then decide how to proceed. Obviously we can"t fold on the flop repeatedly with these stack sizes, but we can this time if the flop stinks.


raise/folding from a stack of 20x is usually pretty poor.... against a maniac who"s range is ATC, is way too weak and spewy.

Agreed, so don"t raise.

In summary, against this player, I think we should get to the flop as cheaply as we can unless we have a genuine monster. If we hit the flop, accept the all-in as we are prob a huge favourite. We should be taking advantage of these players, not playing into their hands by giving away our edge and gambling with a hand that is slightly ahead. If we hit one of our high cards and he misses, if he then goes all-in we are a 95% favourite. As he is going to get it in irrespective, I would prefer to do it when I am going to lose 1 time out of 20, rather than 3/4 times out of 10. This is a tournament, not cash, albeit shallow-stacked. If you are happy to lose your stack 3/4 times out of 10 to a player you should be thrashing, I"m not.

The only justification for raising would be to isolate, cos you don"t really want others coming along. There is no mention in the OP of table positions, or whether any other players are still live at any stage, both of which are critical to how you should play this hand.

PS, separate to the situation with this player, I don"t like the raise size to 2.8 BB out of a stack of 20 BB.
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TheSnapper

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2011, 19:49:44 PM »
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

Santino67

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Re: Situations?
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2011, 22:32:58 PM »
Glad to see the varied responses above, especially as they"re coming from different angles. Interesting comments about using result to justify the play and not being results orientated. I decided to start this thread specifically to get advice for just those reasons, having watched some tutorials about minimising your loss and analysing hands afterwards. Yeah, on both occasions I got donked by hands I was favourite against and the thought process of the other players is effectively out of my hands.....but learning from you guys is paramount to me improving as a player so many thanks for your input, keep those ideas coming  8)

I"ll also try to post hands where I got it badly badly wrong when the chips go in (regardless of the outcome  :D ), again thanks for any replies in advance.

Grant
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