Author Topic: Season 6 Discussion  (Read 191559 times)

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MintTrav

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2011, 07:24:22 AM »

that"s a bit harsh

For the live events the ranking positions are sent to the compiler the day after the event are are almost always updated in the rankings on the same week

There was a dislocation with the DTD WCOAP Online as it coincided to the day with Leigh's departure and the need to record the results fell through the cracks. Once we then obtained the results from DTD we had to work out who was represented by which DTD alias, a process that is ongoing.

Not exactly representative of systematic laxness in updating the rankings....


If it was just this time, I would not have posted - it"s almost every time. I"m not looking to provoke a debate - just hoping for an improvement.
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PantsMan

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #166 on: October 06, 2011, 10:17:27 AM »

beer mixed with pain killers might produce some random play.. be fun though  ;D


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Jon MW

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #167 on: October 06, 2011, 10:41:53 AM »


that"s a bit harsh

For the live events the ranking positions are sent to the compiler the day after the event are are almost always updated in the rankings on the same week

There was a dislocation with the DTD WCOAP Online as it coincided to the day with Leigh's departure and the need to record the results fell through the cracks. Once we then obtained the results from DTD we had to work out who was represented by which DTD alias, a process that is ongoing.

Not exactly representative of systematic laxness in updating the rankings....


If it was just this time, I would not have posted - it"s almost every time. I"m not looking to provoke a debate - just hoping for an improvement.


In the past there"s been a long wait for online sites to provide results and the start of the season can cause problems.

But the 2 online events before the Worlds, the rankings were updated 1 day after the event and 2 days after the event - so I don"t really see a problem - obviously going forward it would be handy to replicate the system we had from before the Worlds to avoid any future problem.

In terms of the original point made - it is a bit incongruous that there"s so little emphasis placed on the leader board, what is the winner even called for example? They have been referred to as the rankings winner in the past - but maybe more emphasis on the "Player of the Season" might be better perhaps.
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tumblet

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2011, 22:54:48 PM »
Ok here we go, just read all the pages so far, probably missed a few ideas so might be going over some that have already been said: -

Online League

I liked the breakdown that Rich did with 10 teams, possible to increase the teams to maybe 15 and the have an on line league of whatever format (probably 1 game every 6 weeks) and the top 10 in the league gaining entry into a team event (150 players) with maybe the added value (depending on sponsorship) being the top team gain free entry into the tournament, and top player in each team getting a free entry to an apat comp. Players with smaller base player base may qualify automatically due to numbers, teams with a larger base will have more competition for players. Any team who has players who cannot attend then go down the list.. Team Captains to sort out their own scoring or apat.

Live Games

Worlds to stay at DTD (personal cannot make it due to work, but Venue is superb, and APAT deserves to be having its premier event at DTD.

Other Games.

Stay at £75 Entry Worlds at £100 or even more maybe, having a few on line qualifiers for them

There are a few things that I feel have changed APAT over the last few seasons. Its growing in size or going overseas has been great ambition and fun for those who want the holiday or can afford it, but detrimental to the core uk amateur player and has possibly taken away an event from them, or pushed apat away from them..

Bank Holiday Weekends: (this is more personal probably) but I do feel that demand for games may be lost due to this. Worlds has to be on that weekend, but It seems (I might be wrong) that most games are on these weekends.

Schedule: No flow to what is going on at APAT. I used to know exactly what was on, but with even more means of communications, I feel like I know less (or maybe there is so much more its hard to keep on top of) what is going on.

Venues: The Nationals should stay (Wales(Swansea, Cardiff), Ireland(Dublin if av), Scotland(Wherever not been to any events), England (Luton) this amounts to 4 events, where travel is going to be an issue for some players, but so be it. These should be spaced out with another APAT tournament in between.


Eg. I"m using an assumption that the new season may start around Feb/March 2012.. And any national at any date, there are so many things that have to change because of venue availability, but its a basic idea..

Mar - Wales
Apr - Newcastle (North East)
May - English (South)
June - Yorkshire (North)
July - Scottish (Scotland Obv  ::))
Aug - WORLDS (Midlands)
Sept - Brighton (South)
Oct - Coventry (Midlands)
Nov - Blackpool (North West - Online League Comp Team Event) or Coventry for central for each team. (or make it last game of Season which gives time to sort out the following season)
Dec?? or Jan - Irish

This schedule leaves out many possible venues, and also games which would need to be fitted in possibly.

European Game (or APAT Holiday  ;D)
Venues Not mentioned but could be substituted (the ones I can think of, I"m sure there are more: Bolton, Liverpool, Sheffield, London, etc.

The one thing I would say is please don"t rush into any season. The demand is there to fill every event I"m sure if APAT goes back to basics..

Sorry for the long (possibly boring post), time is limited for me at the moment, so get it all out in one go.. Now I can breath  ;D ;D

suzanne

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2011, 01:46:44 AM »
There doesnt seem to be too much support for the live video feed so I would just like to say....I LOVE IT!!

I know costs etc need to be taken into consideration but I can honestly say that when it is on, I am watching it from start to finish.

Tighty and Leighs witty remarks are obviously the main attraction but just watching it makes you feel like you are there (though gutted not to be).

What I would like to suggest is... that if live feed should continue. Could we maybe have more APAT players who have been busted commentating on live feed? Not only would it take a bit of pressure off the updating team but would also give a bit of insight into how other players think!

Personally I have loved this in the past. I was glued to the screen when Mark was updating in Coventry...the lad was born to do it and knows his stuff. Similarly with James E and some welsh bloke ;)  

I really think if some of the "better" players got involved and maybe gave just 20/30 mins it would make viewing more interesting and educational.


nosey-p

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2011, 09:46:48 AM »
Live

Everything has already been said, Stay at £75/£100, Stay at DTD for worlds (but will clash with the Goliath) can the date be changed? Does it have to be on a bank holiday? If I remember right, the first time we was there, the 2 day ones was on the Friday and Saturday which both sold out. No dinner break (to finish earlier on the Saturday) Venues (go to who will have us) it would be good to spread the venues around the country but we have to go with who will cater for is in terms of dates and capacity. Would be good to have the team event (or any event) in the centre of the country in terms of transport (Leeds/Sheffield) Pro-am not bothered either way with this but if you keep it, should be in London. Same with overseas, as long as it does not take away from UK based games then have as many as you want. 

Online League

This seems to be were the biggest change as to be. As it is its not working (just look at the fall in numbers and the arguments it has coursed). I suggested a county league in the season 5 discussion thread and I see it has been brought up in this year's thread, for me this is the way forward. How the league would work is up for discussion (1/2 leagues, length, points, prizes etc)

Online    

I don't know how successful this has been as I have not played them but I would like to suggest that we scrap the $50 game. APAT is all about the AMATURE player and $50 is above most people's buy-in range for an online game (thinking of new players to the game). How about an individual league? $5/$10 buy-in, 1 game every 2 weeks (does not have to be on a Sunday) can be mixed games NLH/PLO/6 SEAT/ STUD etc but most games would have to be NLH as this is what most people play. 1 big prize (WSOP package/ EPT package) to keep the interest going have a playoff, top 30 play for say 5 prizes UKIPT/DTD £300 and so on). The prizes are dependent on what sponsorship we have, and I'm not talking about $10,000 WSOP but a $1500/$2000 game with travel. Will expand on this if any interest is shown    
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 11:36:40 AM by nosey-p »

AceOnTheRiver

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #171 on: October 15, 2011, 21:45:04 PM »
Ok Firstly... There"s Gonna be a season 6  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now that"s out of my system a few points to hopefully enhance a great product.

- It sounds like scheduling is well under way but please take on board Alan"s earlier comments that in 2011 if you wanted to pay £75 for a Regular APAT National in the UK there is no individual event for you post the World"s in August (Sep - Ireland, Oct - Team Event, Nov - Vegas, Dec - ProAm, Jan - Czech Rep). A big chunk of the year with none of the core APAT product IMO
-  In a similar vein (and I know you can"t always control this) plenty of notice for the first National of the season. I missed Coventry this year for this reason and I know a few missed Swansea last year for the same
- I agree with Phil about Sundays for the National onlines, sorry Steve. If it can be done and the sponsors are happy, then I would suggest a simple voting thread on Saturday vs. Sunday
- I love European events. Very personal biased view and completely get the counter argument but for me 2 p.a. is ideal
- Worlds @ DTD over August Bank Holiday. It"s established. It works. It"s the Dogs! Keep it.
- I think I am stating the obvious and the powers that be are already on this but most would like more standard UK Nationals than we have had this year

- Online League. It"s great that so many care so much to envoke such debate but a shame that it"s had a greater share of voice than anything else as I"ve heard a few say "if it doesn"t work get rid of it" yet we would not say that about the APAT Nationals. Should it be put onto a separate thread?
FWIW by points on the debate
- Shortened seasons may work but 3 x 6 weeks is too short imho. Is there a way of splitting the leagues mid-season so that those in the bottom half have something to play for and keep the interest going- a sort of Cup / Plate concept?
- Not sure about the Super Regional Idea - If you are in Liverpool or London or Dingwall then it"s obvious who to play for but for some it"s less obvious. Eg I am from Northampton, is that East, East Mids or South East. You could also be breaking up established groups

Thank You APAT & Keep it Up!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 09:25:50 AM by AceOnTheRiver »
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Robbiebox

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #172 on: October 16, 2011, 11:18:11 AM »
Here is my tuppence worth :

Live

- Countries & Venues ~ It seems to me that the more central the venue the quicker it sells (Aberdeen and Cork sold especially slowly). APAT is under competition from many similar good tourneys these days and sticking to more central venues would be a wise move. I don"t think Yorkshire has ever held an APAT and Leeds (ALEA esp.) & Sheffield have some nice rooms.
European venues just don"t seem worth it for a £75 comp TBH, but a little mini-festival might make it worthwhile. Somewhere with sunshine --> Spain at Easter/Whit would  suit me, why go to Spain in Jan  ???.

- Structure ~ It has been tweaked and tweaked and is as good as you can get for a two day event now. Would like to see the games start earlier on both days if venue can accomodate, I know there are dealer issues on this but other tours manage it. This would allow for Saturday to play to the money and more chance to enjoy local establishments before closing time, also allows for people to get home earlier on the Sunday night.
- Buy in ~ I personally would prefer slightly higher, but agree current £75/£100/£50 is democratic choice.
- Pay structure~ This years adopted structure is way better.
- Added value ~ Whatever you can get is good, but reg free must stay number one priority for everyone to benefit.
- Trophies / medals ~ Please keep these, they are a great talking point beforehand and for the cost must be a very effective promotion tool.
- Rules ~ APAT's early years had this as a clear focus so lets get back to setting standards. I would like to see the rules on showdown/betting out of turn/verbal "raise" or "raise to" clarified, sorry to all you laid back players this is just the nit in me.
- WCOAP ~ DTD everytime as all have said. The STUD event only sold half the seats and it would be good to put a more popular event on the Thursday (say 6 max) or maybe put in a PLO8 or 8 game tourney.
- Streaming ~ Much better to watch if you can get that RDIF table that shows hole cards, although this would kick up a fuss over fairness. If an expense has to go, then sadly this is probably near the top.
- Live updates ~ The At a Glance page was great.
- Post event reports ~ Fine
- Photo galleries ~ Fine, altough would like to see one gallery that links pics to names.
- Team events ~ I enjoy the social side of these, and think they suit several short MTTs or STTs rather than a single MTT where people can be out early and not really involved for the rest of the w/end. Also I have a suggestion for one to back the online series (see online section below)
- Side events ~ Never played one, but they seem popular. Is there room for a 9pm one on the Saturday to get more varieties in the schedule ??
- Formats, ie reentry, rebuys, etc~ There is a place for these, but not in oversold APAT events aimed at amateur players.
- Guarantees ~ Not really needed imo
- Schedule, ie is one event a month right, etc ~ maybe too many in this increasingly competitive buy-in range.

Online

- Sponsors, one / multiple ~ I am happy with many if it means better deals, but I would imagine many dont want to be downloading and depositing into many different sites. So one big sole sponsor is probably best ~ Genting are going great  in the UK live scene and would be good sponsor in the current climate.
- Online Championship ~ Fine, but Sundays are Poker night.....get them moved, everyone gives up so many Saturday nights already with the live games.
- Online side events ~ Fine, although would prefer a variety of games rater than PLO everytime.
- Online national league~ OK lets get started : DITCH  the UNFAIR NUMBER DEPENDENT LEAGUE FORMAT ! This format loses way more members than it brings in.
Genting have run a few live team events that have followed an online league. They were in teams of 4 or 6 and the points you got in the league then were used to create your starting stack at the live event. This would mean APATers would create there own team bringing in new players to the APAT fold and nearly everyone would stay the distance as every event would be important towards  your live starting stack.
- Online buy ins ~ $10 or $5 is probably best to attract the most. If a team format as suggested was to be taken onboard then there would need to be some thought over funding the live game prize pool. Say $5+2, with the $2 going towards the live final pool.

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Fatcatstu

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #173 on: October 16, 2011, 11:36:50 AM »

Somewhere with sunshine --> Spain at Easter/Whit would  suit me, why go to Spain in Jan  ???.





spain in january was bloody lovely actually!
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duke3016

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #174 on: October 16, 2011, 11:39:31 AM »


Somewhere with sunshine --> Spain at Easter/Whit would  suit me, why go to Spain in Jan  ???.

spain in january was bloody lovely actually!


Yep - No crowds and lovely weather.....

Moocher

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #175 on: October 16, 2011, 13:33:34 PM »
Plenty of discussion, plenty of ideas to chew over

When will the new seasons schedule be published please?
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Robbiebox

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #176 on: October 16, 2011, 13:54:47 PM »



Somewhere with sunshine --> Spain at Easter/Whit would  suit me, why go to Spain in Jan  ???.

spain in january was bloody lovely actually!


Yep - No crowds and lovely weather.....


Somewhere with sunshine --> Spain at Easter/Whit would  suit me, why go to Spain in Jan  ???.



spain in january was bloody lovely actually!


I withdraw my suggestion in the face of the opinions above from APATs beach bodied sun gods. January it is.
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PHIL_TC

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #177 on: October 16, 2011, 13:59:48 PM »

- I agree with Phil about Sundays for the National onlines, sorry Steve. If it can be done and the sponsors are happy, then I would suggest a simple voting thread on Saturday vs. Sunday



- Online Championship ~ Fine, but Sundays are Poker night.....get them moved, everyone gives up so many Saturday nights already with the live games.


Bumping.. anyone want to give Sundays for the online nationals some love?  :-*
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Fatcatstu

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #178 on: October 16, 2011, 14:06:13 PM »



I withdraw my suggestion in the face of the opinions above from APATs beach bodied sun gods. January it is.


this made me lol :) nh!
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TightEnd

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Re: Season 6 Discussion
« Reply #179 on: October 16, 2011, 14:58:00 PM »

Plenty of discussion, plenty of ideas to chew over

When will the new seasons schedule be published please?


Earlier than the equivalent time last year!

Discussions in progress now, so on course for that