Season 6 Discussion

[AMRN]

My only request for season 6 is...


15K starting stacks please!!!

^^THIS!!

When APAT first started, 10k stack was awesome, and was deeper than anything I"d ever played..... nowadays though, 10k is pretty shallow in comparison to other tourneys...  15k seems to be the new standard, and doesn"t make a massive amount of difference to tournament run-time either  (I"m sure I can spew 15k as fast as I can spew 10k)

[TightEnd]

Players generally put far too much importance on starting stack

It is the structure that is key

3,000 chips is fine if the structure is graduated enough to allow play at all times

I am not saying a move to 15,000 won"t happen, merely pointing out that structure is key and I am not aware that for any concerted period of any APAT national our structure and 10,000 chips leads to a crapshoot.

[Swinebag]

I agree that structure is key rather than starting stack, but UKIPT, GUKPT, DTD deep and now Genting have similar structures to APAT but have starting stacks of 15K, 20K, 15K and 25K respectively.

GUKPT and DTD deep, which are much more established compared to the other 2, also used to have 10K starting stacks.

Time for APAT to make the change as well???

[Jon MW]

... and doesn"t make a massive amount of difference to tournament run-time either  ...

so what"s the point?

Doesn"t that just suggest that the structure"s altered to speed up the play at certain points to balance out the total tournament time?

[TightEnd]

I agree that structure is key rather than starting stack, but UKIPT, GUKPT, DTD deep and now Genting have similar structures to APAT but have starting stacks of 15K, 20K, 15K and 25K respectively.

Yes, and all run over more than one starting day, and more than two playing days

Again, not ruling it out per se, but in isolation (ie if APAT stays at two day events) there is no need

[Des]

If this proposal was carried then some part of the structure would have to give to allow for 50% more chips in play. 

Is it currently broke comes to mind?

[AMRN]

The WCOAP Main Event ran with a 15k stack in 2011, but stuck to the normal APAT structure (I don"t remember any levels being removed, but I left around level 10) - it afforded far much more play early on, but didn"t lengthen the playing time significantly (if I recall correctly).

[AMRN]

Is it currently broke comes to mind?

I always support this adage..... BUT I thought that thread was partly about Continuous Improvement opportunity?  It may not be broke, but that doesn"t mean it can"t be improved....

[nosey-p]

Don't know if it's too late in the day for suggestions

How about a TURBO WORLD AMATURE CHAMPIONSHIP. I know the all point of APAT is to have a good strutched tournament at an affordable price, so this would go against this but they are more and more tournaments appearing at the £100 mark so to be different have a turbo series that is the opposite. I'm not saying have £75/£100 buy-ins but around the £30/£40 with the ME still being at £75. It would go something like this  

Friday: 6max (7.30)
Saturday ME (2.30, 1 day) + Stud or Razz or Shoot Out (8.00)
Sunday Omaha (2.30) + 3 handed (5.00)

The starting chips and clock and capacity would have to be worked out to fit into a certain time frame. Plus it would depend on APAT staff, venue and dealers but that is the same for all tournaments.    

[Des]

Is it currently broke comes to mind?

I always support this adage..... BUT I thought that thread was partly about Continuous Improvement opportunity?  It may not be broke, but that doesn"t mean it can"t be improved....

But will this actually improve your experience or would it require us to play 14 levels on day 1 instead of 12, while potentially adding a couple of hours to our Sunday night finishing time?  Would it result in the tournament becoming more of a chore for our less experienced players or those who also want the weekend to be a social experience?

[TightEnd]

The WCOAP Main Event ran with a 15k stack in 2011, but stuck to the normal APAT structure (I don"t remember any levels being removed, but I left around level 10) - it afforded far much more play early on, but didn"t lengthen the playing time significantly (if I recall correctly).

iirc

finish after midnight on the final day.

I think we alighted, through experience, some luck, some skill on a fairly magnificent tournament structure where the only time the average stack is under a lot of pressure is the first level on day two...finals for example play out with loads of play.

I do think that if you make it 15,000, you have to give something from the structure IF players want to be away from a venue before 10pm on the Sunday (or start earlier, where casinos have problems with staff rotas in so doing)

[scouse3465]

A 15 k starting stack would be better for players that like to play , but for a lot of apaters who still nit it up and wait for monsters means a 15 k starting stack may make it too late a finish on the sunday. It all depends on which players make final table. I am sure rich knows this because he see`s all the final tables. Although it shouldnt make too much difference towards the end in bigger events , I think APAT could be take longer when people dont call when they are priced in or shove when they should do. I have seen it therefore could easily add too much time to the sunday night. Rich and Leigh would be the most informed people to work this out , I know Leigh definately has seen it because i spoke to him about it on final tables. Also the apat team shouldnt have to be there until a stupid time on sunday night. I know there are laggy players and nit in all tournaments but I believe APAT still has more of the latter than any other tournament. This is not a dig at nits , upto u how u play but still may or may not make it too late a finish , sure the experts in apat tournies structure will know and decide .

[TightEnd]

Scouse makes some good points. Albeit the APAT player is more experienced than 2006-07 but they APATs still play tighter for longer than all other events I cover. Not necessarily a bad thing, just how it is

[SirPercival]

Give everyone a million chips and start blinds at 2500/5000.

Sorted.  

[AMRN]

But will this actually improve your experience or would it require us to play 14 levels on day 1 instead of 12

If the WCOAP ME had to play out two extra levels per day, then I stand corrected.   EDIT: Just saw Tighty"s clarification, so stand very corrected now.

Would it result in the tournament becoming more of a chore for our less experienced players or those who also want the weekend to be a social experience?

Not sure about it becoming a chore for less experienced players.... surely it would provide room for even more play early on, and to the "less experienced player", that may intimate increased value for money. 


As Rob says above, all the major tours used to play 10k stacks but have moved on to larger stacks. I seem to recall that one of APAT's objectives was to provide a "learning ground" for players to introduce themselves to the tour market, and the 10k deepstack gave that tour tournament structure but at a lower buy in.... Is there not a case that APAT needs to keep up with the changing market if it is to continue to provide the learning ground to the tour events?

Not having a dig at APAT here btw, and will continue to play all the events that I can regardless..... but debate is healthy, right?