Author Topic: Hand from the team event.  (Read 30603 times)

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AMRN

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 21:02:07 PM »
with the perfect stack size for jamming, against the right player I would be jamming far worse than 99 here.

At this stage of tourney, 99 is way up in the jam range. Ship it.

jayteejack

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 22:22:49 PM »
make a nice pile of your chips, put the penguin on top and walk it straight in to the centre. double up or go home baby

ronaldo07

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 11:35:27 AM »


As long as there is no monster or short stacks in blinds I prob make it 5k. Don"t like the shove cos u r mostly flipping/ behind when called so u have to get it thru a big % of time.


So are you really planning to put nearly a 1/3 of your chips in, fold to a shove and leave yourself with about 15bb?


Yes exactly this. Why go AI when 1/3 of AI gets the same job done?

If he 4 bets u are crushed anyway and I"m plenty good enough to come back from 15 bigs.
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Marty719

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 11:41:51 AM »



As long as there is no monster or short stacks in blinds I prob make it 5k. Don"t like the shove cos u r mostly flipping/ behind when called so u have to get it thru a big % of time.


So are you really planning to put nearly a 1/3 of your chips in, fold to a shove and leave yourself with about 15bb?


Yes exactly this. Why go AI when 1/3 of AI gets the same job done?

If he 4 bets u are crushed anyway and I"m plenty good enough to come back from 15 bigs.


What do u think his 4b range is?  We are very likely getting the correct price against this range.  If I 3b small, its to try and get lower pairs to jam.
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ronaldo07

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »
AA KK QQ AK
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Jon MW

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 12:29:05 PM »




As long as there is no monster or short stacks in blinds I prob make it 5k. Don"t like the shove cos u r mostly flipping/ behind when called so u have to get it thru a big % of time.


So are you really planning to put nearly a 1/3 of your chips in, fold to a shove and leave yourself with about 15bb?


Yes exactly this. Why go AI when 1/3 of AI gets the same job done?

If he 4 bets u are crushed anyway and I"m plenty good enough to come back from 15 bigs.


What do u think his 4b range is?  We are very likely getting the correct price against this range.  If I 3b small, its to try and get lower pairs to jam.


It"s irrelevant what his 4b range is - you"re too short stacked to 3 bet less than a shove. As AMRN said earlier, you have the perfect stack size for jamming with the perfect cards for doing it with - as he said you should be 3 bet jamming in this spot with worse hands than 99.

You shove for the fold equity and for the fact that you"re mainly going to be flipping if you"re going to be called - this is not a bad outcome.

Generalising - if you"re 50:50 when you"re called but your fold equity means you"ll only be called 50% of the time - that means shoving gives you a 75% chance of winning the hand.

If you take any less cautious line then you may have a better chance of creeping into the money - but there"s no profit in continually min cashing.
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Jon MW

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 12:30:40 PM »

AA KK QQ AK


That probably is his 4 bet range - but what do you do when he calls - which he normally will - and the flop comes with any A, K, Q, J or T? Or if it"s coordinated for straight or flush possibilities?
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AMRN

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2011, 12:31:21 PM »

AA KK QQ AK


If you think that"s the extent of a typical 4b range, I would like to be on your table please.  ;)

Jon MW

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 12:32:29 PM »


AA KK QQ AK


If you think that"s the extent of a typical 4b range, I would like to be on your table please.  ;)


lol - I actually think that"s feasible, but as I just said above I don"t think his choices are shove or fold and that"s where the problem arises as to what to do next.
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deanp27

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 13:07:21 PM »
I would suggest that open folding>3bet/folding.

But I don"t like folding
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Marty719

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 13:23:24 PM »

I would suggest that open folding>3bet/folding.

But I don"t like folding


def agree with this, but do think vs some villains 3b/call>>>shove.  
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ronaldo07

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 13:49:26 PM »
What I"m saying is it gives u a chance to get away with a playable stack when u are crushed by his 4bet range. He is not going to call or shove with JJ 1010 AJ AQ A10 KQ so u are getting a few better hands to fold and IMO 3 bet to 5k looks stronger than the shove anyway. U shove and might get called by some of these.
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Marty719

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 14:13:39 PM »

What I"m saying is it gives u a chance to get away with a playable stack when u are crushed by his 4bet range. He is not going to call or shove with JJ 1010 AJ AQ A10 KQ so u are getting a few better hands to fold and IMO 3 bet to 5k looks stronger than the shove anyway. U shove and might get called by some of these.


If we 3b to 5k, we are then getting over 2/1 on calling the shove with 35% equity vs this range.  3b folding would be a mistake with this stack size.

Edit: I would argue/hope his range would be wider than this.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 14:20:33 PM by Marty719 »
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deanp27

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 14:29:02 PM »
Yea I might 3b/ call to induce but not typically is this comp as a large majority of players will peel, to see if they get a favourable flop for their hand. For the relatively short amount of time I was in players generally played their stack sizes badly
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ronaldo07

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Re: Hand from the team event.
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 14:35:15 PM »
Well if those % are correct which they prob are then 3 bet calling/folding are a mistake and it"s a push/fold pre so I guess I would fold pre.
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